So I have decided to temporarily use my Panamax M5300-PM for my components other than my amplifiers. This Panamax is older than my PPP and it’s still in production today so I won’t have to worry about a repair. It was a good thing I was in the room when the PPP started to smoke. If I could replace the PPP for around $2000 I would but $6000 for the P12 with fewer outlets and lower power rating is a quagmire. Thanks for letting me express my experience. I will bow out gracefully now.
I think, at least in terms of reputation and longevity, people like Quad had it right - make the elegant design do the work, not the use of special components.
If you can make it sound great with bog-standard* off the shelf parts then it will be that much more reliable and serviceable 
* and standard tolerance too i.e. self-balancing and self-biasing
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If interested in a used PPP or other Power Plant you could place a WTB post in the Marketplace.
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I completely agree. Except that would leave most audiophiles out in the cold with nothing to compare / complain about / argue over / publicly love or hate. 
As a side note we have been building both prototype and post market auto parts for a long time so I see both ends of the market (pre and post production).
With the total single piece or part number tooling and overhead costs many times exceeding $100k you can see easily how it does not pay to make that thing for more than the calculated market time.
There is no predictable future in short run parts but for us it has been a boon. I like to say we have been almost caught up on the work in progress list for 40 years.
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I also understand the manufacturers, this makes the topic so interesting. But if they’d be clear at the time of purchase (of a 10-40k product), that it won’t be serviced say after 10+ years, I guess no one would buy it, not even those who might later understand the commercial reasons.
I use a preamp playing the stock NOS tubes for over 10 years now without loss (measured and listening tested), still being one of the worlds best (still their current model), of a company who services every product they ever built. I like that.
Ok, in the US it retails for 28k, but they do the same for their 5k products.
Sure. But that’s a lot different product than a PPP. I bought one when first released and used it for over 12 years continuously and it developed the dreaded “relay clicking.” I don’t think it can be repaired and I’m not inquiring. I paid like 1000 dollars and got my money’s worth and understand that it is not a hand-wired product but one built from parts not available a dozen years later.
I loved it and it served me well. In its place I’m now using a Decware ZLC. . . a different product, but very good.
A significant factor in the present/referenced instance, I would guess…
There is a used P12 for $3k at TMR
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I buy products that I know are reliable or can be serviced locally. Quad made a decision to design amplifiers with cheap and readily available components, without compromising performance, and they set reference standards, being widely used in the professional world, including the the BBC. They have a fixed price service and recap, for a Quad 909 it’s about $140. There are also plenty of independent engineers who are happy to fix them.
I mentioned Konk Studios recently, they use Quad 520F amps, probably 40 years old, just service every 10 years and no worries. Harbeth do the same.
There are brands that will happily service and repair any product they ever made, such as Quad, Brinkman, Primare, Leica just fixed a camera for me and they had to make some new parts for it, and it took 6 months, but no problem. They will rebuild a camera they made over 100 years ago.
My best experience was with Primare. An amplifier failed after 8 years, they repaired and also paid the international shipping. I asked why, they said it shouldn’t have failed.
I will not buy a large PS Audio amplifier in the UK for fear it should ever have to return to the USA for repair. It’s that simple. The closest I got was briefly owning a Bryston amplifier. Whilst Canadian, their European distributor is PMC, they have had a relationship for over 30 years and PMC have a large factory where they can repair any Bryston amp, new or old, and they have a 20 year guarantee. (PMC also make their own amplifiers.) There are plenty of equally good locally made brands not to have to take the risk.
My son’s amplifier is an Inca Tech Claymore, manufactured in 1986, serviced 5 years ago.
It really is an attitude thing, some people will only choose a hifi brand if their products effectively last forever, but will happily buy a laptop knowing it will need to be replaced in 4 years.
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After fifty years of being an audiophile I’ve learned the hard way that you need to consider construction quality, technique, and repair availability in your purchase decisions. Most of the stuff made in the last two or three decades uses some assembly tech or components that are likely to render the gear obsolete. I’ve got several pieces of gear I bought 15-20 years ago that I can’t get repaired. It’s a risk of being an audiophile you have to accept if you want to be in the hobby. I guess one way to mitigate risk is to buy equipment built in an “old school” manner like Decware, Aric Audio, Don Sachs, Shindo, etc.
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The problem with solid state equipment is most of it can’t be point to point wired like tube equipment, so even if every part is off the shelf, the circuit boards are usually proprietary, and circuit boards do get ruined sometimes.
Problem is, the failure rate for “old school” wired and assembled equipment is much higher than it is for surface mount (SMT), machine-assembled stuff. (happy to be corrected but I’m pretty sure that is the case).
In fact, I expect the move to SMT was as much driven by improving reliability as it is to use less manual labour - if computers and mobile phones failed at the rate (especially the per component rate) of old school gear, they would never have been practical to mass produce or use.
Digital tech changes rapidly too of course, so few chip fabs are going to carry on making 20 year old chips (e.g. DAC chips) just to ensure serviceability, when the cost model overall favours disposal and replacement (and screw the planet).
Having said all that, I much prefer through-hole components (that are large enough for me to see them!) and even point-to-point, in analogue equipment, even if I can’t really DIY any more
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every time i come on the forum and see this thread I read it as Dead & Company and I’m always disappointed
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I bet when surface mount equipment is 80-90 years old it won’t be repairable, but point to point wired tube equipment is.
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Yes, agreed, but for mass produced digital equipment, there really is no alternative to SMT.
Of course we are all used to digital tech changing/improving very quickly, which has masked this issue for the majority, though it is discussed a little more now (“repair cafe culture” etc.).
Another point, of course, is that post-zombie-apocalypse, scavenged SMT digital tech will not be as useful as scavenged “old-school” tech, and books will be much more valuable than hard disks again…