Thank you…i was only using the mac as a last resort and was ablw to get the test done on my DAP
Thank you for your guidance
T
If the problem is upstream of the DSJ, why does the problem not exist when I use the DAP by itself? When I use the DAP to headphones, I hear no gurgley sounds.
Thank you,
T
I don’t know your system well, and in particular I have no insight into which files are being played in which modes and the possible ways things might be corrupted before the DSJ. Each time I ask for specific info I get a general response which doesn’t help me narrow things down.
In general, with non bit-perfect connections with DSD via DoP anything that affects the top 8 bits will cause the DSD/PCM to flicker on the DSJ display and obvious noises at the transitions. Things that only affect the low order bits only corrupt the DSD portion of the DoP and the corruption goes up with increasing deviation from bit-perfectness. NONE of this depends on the DSJ’s volume setting.
If you can pass the bit-perfect test reliably you can play DSD reliably if your system is doing DoP correctly (and most systems do DoP just fine with the correct DSD configuration settings.) If your system supports gapless looping of tracks you might loop the bit-perfect test and look for any flickering of the P on the DSJ display. The one caveat is if your system is changing the sample rate of everything to 96k it might leave the bit perfect data alone and corrupt other sample rates.
The most common “hidden” failure on MACs is the Audio Midi settings since that’s not a very obvious name for that function.
Also as I mentioned a quick and dirty check for bit perfectness is if Redbook reliably reports 16 bits on the DSJ display. But that doesn’t really check sample rates other than 44.1k.
Your energy is best spent debugging the things that you directly control vs assuming that files that everyone else can play normally are bad or the DAC that plays everyone else’s files fine is some how acting differently for you.
I am as ignorant as it goes as to electronics or electrical engineering and I genuinely apologize for irritating you. Remember, I’m the dummy that asked if DSJ accepted DoP…so I am in the dark, I am not trying to be difficult. I am a lawyer afflicted with audiophilia. If you have some law questions you can give me a call and maybe I can help you out.
OK,
I am using a pioneer 30 R DAP that has the capability to act as a USB source if that setting is chosen. When that setting is chosen only the digits are sent…supposedly. This goes in to the DSJ and then to tube monoblocks.
The gurgle does not occur when I use headphones directly in to the DAP, and does not occur in the main system unless the volume is over 70 on the DSJ.
Only DSD causes this issue. I am playing DSD Mahler no 2 San Francisco Orchestra purchased from Blue Coast Records, DSD Bill Evans live at the Vanguard purchased from HDTRACKS… we can stick with these two.
Even though the Pioneer bypasses every setting…supposedly, I turned every possible adjustment off before sending to the PSJ.
When you say non-bit perfect connections, do you mean the USB Cable? If the DAP with the USB sent passing numbers to the DSJ for the BitPerfect Tests, does this still mean the connection is not Bit Perfect? If no, might the USB conditioner fix this?
So the DSJ display will flicker if the connection is non-Bit Perfect? When I ran the test there was no flickering. I will try again.And the gurgle sound is constant not only in transitions. When I play the music files I get DSD64 1 bit, no flickering.
I only used the MAC because I could not find the test files on my DAP, I have corrected this and am not using the MAC, nor do I plan to in the future (sorry for the confusion).
I do not have access to CD’s so no RedBook.
My assumptions were based on information I received. After debunking these false hypothesis I have moved on and am simply trying to figure it out. The reason I am stuck on the DSJ is that it happens at a specific volume setting and that is pretty weird.
At this point I am assuming it is the DAP. I will skip playing DSD through the DSJ until I get a different DAP and just stick to Headphones for DSD…Unless someone comes across this and has figured it out.
Thank you,
T
I ran the bit perfect test again.
No flickering
No B ever displayed- but numbers match in Bitperfect test
played a 44.1/16 file from DAP display showed 44.1/24
Source has up-sampling and all other perimeters OFF
T
That’s what I was asking about and what I expected - no B then you have a bit corruption upstream - non 16 bits for redbook then you have a bit corruption upstream. With PCM you wouldn’t notice most processing, but with the bit perfect test or DSD it’s brought to your attention. One way it could be different with the DS is that something along the way is converting to PCM before what ever is changing the bits.
You very probably have some parameter/setting slightly off - often even with “everything disabled” it’s often a volume control or, for example, replay gain, etc. It’s much less likely a cabling problem, etc. especially since the volume control in the DS qualitatively changes your experience with the sound. FWIW the volume control in the DS is identical for all source material (because the volume is simply a multiply and it happens after DSD and/or PCM is upsampled to 56.448MHz) so if a volume related glitch happens to DSD it will also happen with PCM.
Tho you haven’t stated it, I’m pretty sure you aren’t seeing DSD or DoP on the DS display when you play DSD, your problem at this point isn’t with the DS or DSD, you need to find out what’s modifying your audio bits. Getting CDs to show 44.k and 16 bits on the screen is probably the easiest first thing to test - after that DSD will very probably work fine.
I do get DSD64 1 bit on the display when playing dsd…
Beyond that I will try to go through the pioneer and see that everything is off.
Than you again
TD
Oops, that’s what you would get with a volume control at, say, 99 instead of 100 or some other smaller change - that’s consistent with the CD’s not showing 16 bits
Ok, so make sure volume at source is 100%
Check
Thanks
Well,
I didnt want to jump the gun, but hey, your analysis was correct. All is well.
Thank you Mr. Smith, 
Thanks for reporting back. Playing “Find the Sound” isn’t usually much fun.
I more question (one more? right who am I kidding) Mr. Smith if I can.
DSJ up-samples inputs then back down to DSD 128…Is the any benefit feeding any DSD stream sampled higher than 128?
Thank you
T
I might not understand your question. The DSJ doesn’t accept streams with a sample rate higher than DSD128. Internally it upsamples everything to DSD1280 and then back down to DSD256.
Ahhh.
I was mistaken in my question but the answer is the same…
So, no need to purchase anything over 128?
Sorry for another muffed question,
T