I finally bought another Preamp, as I wanted to use other Line sources.
I agree with you Paul, most of the time the shorter the signal path is the better it is.
Even the most transparent device add its own color/noise to the sound.
So I’m now more satisfied with the sound of my new preamp but still a bit frustrated to be forced to use it due to the noise produced by the DSJ… Hope a coming update will fix or attenuate that.
I am afraid the noise is quiescent and cannot be eliminated with a firmware update.
Ok so DSJ spec sheet should be modified regarding signal/noise ratio and THD/IM don’t you think ?
No, I do not. I am certain the unit meets whatever specifications PS Audio has published for it.
I have not looked, but I doubt there is a published specification for output S/N, with and without the attenuator. What specification did you rely upon?
Unfortunately, not every piece of equipment mates well with everything else.
Ok, so let me sum up.
You can hear audible distortion at 100% volume with a 1k sine but THD/IM is below 0.03%
I am sorry your are unhappy. My point only is that this is not a published specification issue.
PS Audio and Ted have been very upfront with respect to the fact the DS Jr. is a bit noisier than the DS Sr. Very few have expressed any problem. As I noted however, not every piece of equipment mates well with everything else.
Soundtaker said When I bought DSJ I had different speakers, high efficiency, and was using DSJ as a preamp and never noticed that hiss...Which illustrates my point exactly. :)
I agree with you that not every piece of equipement mates well with everything else, I’m not really ok with the fact that DSJ is a bit noisier,
I would say to noisy for this price tag because I have, for instance, a Chord Hugo that uses FPGA technology to, cost half the price and is dead quiet.
My point is that the noise was not as present with Torreys , I move to Huron then noise begin and now when I switch back to Torreys the noise is still present.
On my first attempt when I switch back it was not, so I’m just considering Hardware and or Update failure as an option.
By the way, noise is not the only problem, distortion at low level is the most annoying, again not suitable with this price tag in my opinion
Given that the unit is now making noise when it did not earlier with the same firmware, I suspect a failed firmware update.
Hardware failure is possible, but it would be odd it would happen to fail precisely at the time you installed the update.
Soundtaker saidI agree with you that not every piece of equipement mates well with everything else, I’m not really ok with the fact that DSJ is a bit noisier,
I would say to noisy for this price tag because I have, for instance, a Chord Hugo that uses FPGA technology to, cost half the price and is dead quiet.
My point is that the noise was not as present with Torreys , I move to Huron then noise begin and now when I switch back to Torreys the noise is still present.
On my first attempt when I switch back it was not, so I’m just considering Hardware and or Update failure as an option.
Going from Torreys to Huron and back to Torreys can’t intrinsically increase the noise level. There is always the chance that there’s a bad software load (upgrade or downgrade) and every once in a while the system is weirdly noisy (and each time different) just after a software update and needs to be powered off in hardware and back on to reinitialize the clocks, etc. - that should only need to be done at most once after a software update - if the system was powered off and back on after the downgrade to Torreys the more likely thing is that you aren’t doing exactly the same experiments after you noticed the noise and that the system is the same after going back to Torreys as it was before.
All of that said, the next software release will address the negatives on both the DS and the DS Jr from going from Torreys to Huron (e.g. the change in the color of the noise and the noise modulation on low level fadeouts) while keeping the other features of Huron. In the mean time people are still free to use Torreys (or earlier releases) if Huron isn’t an improvement for them.
Personally - Huron is one of the biggest upgrades I have ever made to my system, any system ! It is a stunning achievement …
Thank you Ted for your expert words.
To be clear and honest I must add that I find the way DSJ sounds just Wonderfull, with Torreys and Huron for different reasons, I don’t want my words to be interpreted wrong.
To all future and existing customers of PS Audio be assured that DSJ is undoubtedly one of the best sounding DAC I’ve ever listen to.
I will wait for the next upgrade of the firmware… and probably get back to my dealer to get a DS Sr
I must also add that I appreciate a lot the free upgrades that PS Audio offers for all their users, and I thank you for that.
If you trade up, please let us know what you think of the DS Sr.
I’ve been reading the DSJ “hash noise” issues on this topic and tried to determine if the problems reported are applicable to my experience. I received my new DSJ today and XLR connected it to my BHK250. Prior to the DSJ, I was using a McIntosh C48 preamp/DAC with the BHK with excellent results. However, when I installed the DSJ and connected my MacBook via USB to stream Tidal, an initial blast of “hash” noise came through, completely uncontrollable with the volume knob. So, I turned everything off then restarted the system and I’ve found that the hash noise has diminished, but not entirely disappeared. If I adjust the Attenuator to the “In” setting, the noise essentially disappears. In the “Out” setting, the hash noise is a low but audible level, continuous, and unaffected by the DSJ volume control. The noise occurs even with the MacBook disconnected from the system (i.e., no source input at all).
At this point, I’m using the DSJ with the Attenuator set to “In” which requires that the volume be set to about 75 for normal listening. I’m okay with this, but I want to understand why the noise occurs with the Attenuator set to “Out”.
Secondly and unrelated to the “hash” issue, if I introduce a Direct Stream preamp to the system and relegate the DSJ to a DAC-only function, does this offer any sonic benefits?
With McIntosh DACs, you have the choice of fixed or variable XLR connections if you want to override the volume control of the DAC and use it with a preamp. If I use the DSJ as a DAC-only, is the volume override an issue?
I know, it’s a lot of stuff here, but since I have your attention, I need to pick your brains. 
Thoughts? Thanks.
There may be multiple things going on:
If the initial loud hash was at unbearable levels that’s one thing if it was the same as the steady state level with the attenuator out then it’s covered below.
If it was very loud there are two things that might cause it. Check to see if your software is Huron or Torreys. There was a bug in Torreys on the DS Jr that let garbage thru for a little on power up, and after software updates. Unfortunately power up and software upgrades can also take out the attenuator making the noise 20dB louder. You can check your software level by press and holding the button until the screen changes and then repeatedly pressing the button until you get to the version screen. If it’s not Huron, download Huron and install it. (See you manual re updating with a USB stick.)
The first power up after an install can cause noise. With Huron this noise should at least not be exaggerated by undoing the attenuator if you had it set.
There’s a new feature in Huron that let’s you lock the attenuator on if you want so that you can’t blast yourself if you accidentally hit the wrong button on your remote. Also if you are using your DS without a preamp you can set the maximum volume as a safety measure.
The 20dB attenuator is there precisely to better match the output range of the DS to the rest of your system. It lowers the output by 20dB, but this also lowers the noise by 20dB. If you find that your volume rarely gets above 66 without the attenuator, you can engage the attenuator and use a volume that’s 40 higher and the net effect is that the noise is reduced by 20dB.
If you can’t hear the noise in normal operation then using the DS’s volume control is fine and doesn’t have any digital downsides (all bits are always used even with the volume at 1.)
There are multiple possible volume controls. In general you don’t want to use the digital volume control of your source (beyond replaygain, etc.)
If you have volume control(s) after the DS you should try using the DS’s volume control with down stream volumes set to get to the loudest you probably want to listen to when the DS’s volume is at 100. Some may find that keeping the DS’s volume at 100 and using a downstream volume control is more convenient or sounds different in a good way and there’s nothing wrong with doing that.
Thank you for the response. The DSJ does have Huron installed. When I initially turned it on, the attenuator setting was set to “out”. Resetting it to “in” seemed to eliminate the noise but requires that I set the volume at a much higher range level for normal listening. The maximum volume level is set at “106”. The manual indicates that setting the attenuator to “in” does not result in any negative sonic outcome, which is critical for me.
At this point, I need to mention that I am finding various terms being used for the attenuator setting: high/low, normal, in/out. I’m not sure which position is “normal”, but as mentioned, the noise becomes inaudible in the “in” position which is what I am using.
Is the audible “hash” sounding noise normal for the DSJ, at least in the “out” setting? Does this appear to be a result of Huron?
Thanks.
When someone referrers to “normal” they’re saying that the attenutor is off or out. With my Direcstream Sr I had to use the attenuator too because of noise. I’m hoping this new update makes it so I don’t have to use it.
The 20dB attenuator is there exactly to help people to lower the output noise to a level that’s non-intrusive (or completely absent.) 20dB is a volume level difference of 40.
A certain amount of noise (more than most PCM DACs) is normal for single bit DSD DACs. Hash (not-white and changing) noise isn’t. BUT one thing that’s being addressed in the next release is the non-whiteness of the output noise of the DS and DS Jr. Huron make an existent hash problem sound worse (especially on the DS Jr.) After the next release there will be less hash and less apparent noise in the Jr and Sr.
Since I am still evaluating my new DSJ, do you have a timeline for the Huron release? Thanks.
Sorry, had some family issues and had to leave town last week. Back this week and we hope to have it done then. Fingers crossed.