Final version firmware released: 1.94 December 9, 2016, Now Interim 2.08 March 9, 2018

Paul McGowan said

Matt, our engineering director, at first thought he could fairly quickly patch up what was wrong and bring it up to snuff. That turned out to be more difficult than one might imagine requiring a nearly complete disentangling of spaghetti code. If you’ve ever tried to unravel spaghetti it’s almost impossible to predict how long it will take.

Mat’s on it. He’s gotten mine to work a lot better with interim code and maybe the thing to do is release that for now while he keeps working on getting the rest sorted out.

Paul, we heard from Matt on Dec. 22 that he was hoping for a January debut. Now you say "it's almost impossible to predict how long it will take".

I have personally been waiting for over a year, when you all there in Boulder graciously replaced the first DMP that I bought and most of the idiosyncrasies that I didn't like about it were just as evident in the second. Despite disappointment with that discovery and the option to return the second unit for a refund, I elected to keep it. This was based on promises from your support personnel that a soon-anticipated firmware update should rectify all the anomalies.

The story gets longer but let me spare you and the readers here. This thread hardly needs another anecdote of a DMP owner’s frustrations…

With a timeline for a remedy that is dragging-on and reluctance now to even suggest an ETA, can you at least tell us how much longer you intend to allow for the current rewriting effort to bear fruit?

Which leads to a related question. Should Matt be unable to deliver all that is hoped for in a more timely fashion than we have been treated to so far, is there a Plan B?

Like Rob, I would appreciate more info – but I’m not even sure that’s realistic. Paul might tell us that he intends to keep at it until it’s really fixed, and mean it, only to be told by the programmers in a few weeks/months that some things just can’t be corrected.

It’s true that a beta/interim update might cause problems for some people who aren’t having them now. So I would not post such an update for anyone to download, but send it only to those who are active here or who contact customer service, and so understand what they are getting (and know how to go back to the earlier version if necessary).

haxter1 said

My DMP started to show wrong track numbers on some Redbook cds. I shut it off with the rear switch and left it unplugged over night. It hasn’t done this again in over a month. I realize that this may not work for every case but it is worth a try.


An interesting observation. What would cause that? Static buildup?

Other things that change over time would include a growing accumulation of grime on the lens (mine had that and it has been corrected and it doesn’t seem like that would impact the display anyway) and an increasing number of files (and possibly fragmentation) on the SD card. Could a delay in looking up or writing metadata to the card make the display freeze? Turning the player off for an extended period wouldn’t fix that. I like the static buildup theory.

The display on my DMP gets stuck on about half the discs I play and this definitely seems to be getting worse. I will give your fix a try and report back.

-Pb

Paul McGowan said

Mat’s on it. He’s gotten mine to work a lot better with interim code and maybe the thing to do is release that for now while he keeps working on getting the rest sorted out.


As I mentioned in a previous post, I have quite a bit of experience developing and managing code intensive gambling websites. My advice to Paul would be to make the interim software available via download if it is better than what we have. Even if it’s not perfect it sounds like an upgrade and I think customers would be more patient if they had something better than what we’ve got now.

Obviously none of us are part of these internal discussions but I can’t think of any business reason (and like I said I’ve been in this position before) why you would delay a release any longer. If you figure it all out a month later, great.

When you are doing a complete re-write often very little function is working before it’s all working. Matt definitely isn’t fixing one old bug, then the next, then the next. He’s writing things from scratch and won’t have anything till he has almost everything.

How about an update from the man himself who is tackling the rewrite, i.e., Matt? Is it certain that the demons of the DMP’s display/touch-screen will ultimately be overcome? How close are you to it, would you say?

Sorry, Ted, your reply there did not appear until after my last post. But after more than a year of waiting, there is little comfort in what you say. I would love to be as optimistic as I have previously been, but what’s the guarantee that Matt will finally succeed? Therefore the questions: is there a Plan B (if the current one doesn’t work), and at what point would it kick-in if there is one? (Another year from now???)

I don’t speak for PS Audio on this. But here are some facts about developing software:

The only sure way to know how long it will take is to do the work. The surer you want to be without doing the work the longer it takes, and then after you have that estimate you can start and do the real work. The fastest way to get a software job done is skip the detailed estimates, just get to work.

Similarly having multiple detailed plans (a plan A and a plan B …) takes more time. You can either get it sooner or spend more time up front and still have to do all of the real work.

I have every confidence that Matt will be able to make things much less flaky. I also believe he’ll be able to add some features which are missing. Does the remaining Oppo hardware support everything people might like? I don’t know. There are a set of discs that can’t be navigated reliably with out looking at the video - if the video isn’t available…

It’s just a wild guess on my part, but I also think it will sound a little better when Matt get’s done, but remember I don’t speak for PS Audio and there could be bottle necks/noise sources I don’t know about.

To be clear, though, Paul informed us on July 2 that Matt had been assigned the project several weeks earlier and his work was already in progress. It is now 7 months later.

The shomozzle that is the DMP OS (and this also began with the PWT) must be hurting the PS Audio branding.

Owners are fed-up and they talk to their friends. I can go out and purchase a number of competing hi-end brands with units that dont have any significant issues.

Peanut butter said:

"An interesting observation. What would cause that? Static buildup?

Other things that change over time would include a growing accumulation of grime on the lens (mine had that and it has been corrected and it doesn’t seem like that would impact the display anyway) and an increasing number of files (and possibly fragmentation) on the SD card. Could a delay in looking up or writing metadata to the card make the display freeze? Turning the player off for an extended period wouldn’t fix that. I like the static buildup theory."

I am interested about the accumulation of grime on the lens and how do you correct that?

Like many of the posts above i have had issues with the DMP and sometimes i have to reboot it. However the sound quality is so great that i am not likely to ever to replace it with another brand. I just work around them. It is worth it to me to have it even with its flaws.

Ted Smith said

When you are doing a complete re-write often very little function is working before it’s all working. Matt definitely isn’t fixing one old bug, then the next, then the next. He’s writing things from scratch and won’t have anything till he has almost everything.


Would I be right in surmising that the rewriting of the new software is taking longer to get through the pipeline than what the original software took to write?

Not that I’m in any hurry, I’ve moved on. The DMP came with much fanfare and expectations, but to me, on the short list of lemon products DMP is number 2 behind the PowerPack Mk2.

I’m probably alone in this, but I would take a new front panel (or new box) that has hard buttons on it, and a screen that doesn’t have to do so much. The whole thing is dependent on a touchscreen that doesn’t work.

Personally, I don’t look at the thing after I get it playing, and I don’t care if it is displaying an image of the album. I suppose if the rack was in front of me rather than to the side, I might feel differently.

1 Like

Thanks, guys, and thanks Ted for chiming in. This has been hard as you can imagine, but none harder than for the owners of DMP who have to wade through the day-to-day hassle of reading promises that remain unfulfilled and that’s my fault. I shouldn’t have promised a date or even ventured a guess because it’s not going to be accurate. And then we’ve let people down again. And in the even bigger picture and words aside, the fact we haven’t delivered any promised improvement speaks volumes.

All I can do at this point is share with you openly and honestly all that I know. We released the product with what we believed to be a few flaws that would mostly not bother people. I had been using DMP in the Music Room for some time and found CDs, data discs, and SACDs to be slow loading but operable. There were a few quirks I had gotten used to, like the first and last track swapping at the beginning of a disc insertion if I went too quickly, not leaving it in pause too long, but nothing too bad. There was a lot of pressure from anxious customers to launch the product. It was late, people were excited about how good it was sounding, and the pressure was on to ship it so people could marvel at its extraordinary performance. With the assurance from a programmer that the few remaining bugs could be easily fixed in the field within a week or two after launch I authorized the product’s release.

What I did not understand at the time, because I am an analog engineering person and certainly not a programmer, is that the control loop code itself was a tangled spaghetti mess and that the programmer responsible was in way over his head. He lacked the competency to write clean code of this magnitude (the code itself is very complicated). His ongoing patches were Band-Aids that covered up one problem while exacerbating another. It was at this time that our director of engineering, Dave, retired and we hired a new one, Matt. I had made it my business to make sure our new director was software-centric. Dave was great but was hardware oriented and we had hardware locked down solid. It was software the company was growing into. Matt’s a programmer down to his toes. He came from a team at Seagate. As he rolled his sleeves up to help the employee responsible for the DMP code (because the promised two weeks had turned into two months) he was stunned at what he saw and came to my office with a grim announcement. The code was some of the worst he’d ever seen. We let that employee go the next day and Matt, whose hands are full just being the director set out to tackle the fixes himself, evenings and weekends.

This is when I became hopeful we would see a fix soon and reported it as such on the forums. I figured he’d have it up and running soon. I was wrong. Between day-to-day tasks, he spent a month determining it would require a rewrite and was not worth salvaging. The story goes on and on and is not worth the complete day-by-day telling.

Here’s where we now are. Matt assures me he will have a much better usable version ready within weeks. I believe him because I am using a version of that fix and it makes the product a joy again to use. Is it perfect? No. But, it’s pretty damned good. We will release that new code which can easily be applied in the field in under 30 seconds.

Meanwhile, we’ve been hiring to fill in the missing position and it’s been a difficult time finding the right person to fill the embedded firmware role for a couple of reasons that aren’t worth public discussion. Let’s just suggest we don’t want a repeat of what happened in the past. We now have two options for the final rewrite. A very experienced contractor and a potential new hire. As soon as we sort those options out the rewrite begins in earnest. We estimate two months for a rewrite but, as Ted writes, software ain’t done till it’s done.

Meanwhile, you will have the better version that should put this all in the past until better shows up.

My apologies for any wrong words or frustrations I have caused by the decisions I have made on behalf of the company.

1 Like

Thanks, Paul. That is quite a story.

badbeef said

I’m probably alone in this, but I would take a new front panel (or new box) that has hard buttons on it, and a screen that doesn’t have to do so much. The whole thing is dependent on a touchscreen that doesn’t work.


This would be my preference as well. I suspect however this would take re-engineering the entire front-end of the product.

I would have never predicted how important the screen on the DMP and DS is to many people, especially the display of album art.

Paul,

I have worked for a software company for the past 30 years and your update confirms some of the things that I was thinking. The re-write was due to bad coding that was too hard to fix. Sometimes you have to scrap it and start over. I’ve been down that road with my own coding and found that when things start to get too complicated, then a new approach can be simpler and more efficient. Some people who are in over their head are too afraid to admit it, and others don’t know the difference.

My advice to PS Audio when hiring programmers is to stay away from people who have recently graduated and look for people with at least 5 years of real world experience and a glowing recommendation from a former employer. I majored in Computer Science and graduated Magna Cum Laude, and I learned more about how to do good coding in the first year after I graduated than I had in all of my college courses. It’s amazing how much I learned about how NOT to code things by having to work on fixing code that other people wrote that was poorly written.

If you don’t have someone who knows coding with whatever programming language you are using, hire one to help with the interviews. I have seen cases at client sites where an employee knew the buzz words, but didn’t have much of a clue how to do the work. That’s what happens when the person doing the hiring does not know what to ask.

Insist that all source code be well commented. Include a comment at the beginning of each section as to what the code is supposed to do, and comment subroutine calls and complex sections so that it is clear what is happening and why. One of my college professors said that good code is self documenting. He was right. Every programmer has their own style and one of the hardest things to do is look at code that someone else wrote and try to understand it well enough to fix something without unintentionally breaking something else.

One time we introduced a new product that would query data from the live production database and display graphs for administrators, and the guy who wrote all of the code gave us a class on how use it. It took three of us two months before we understood how everything worked well enough to produce our first working graph. What the guy who wrote it had done was kind of amazing, but he had put virtually no comments in the code that explained how it worked. Plus he was pressured to get it done quickly and took some shortcuts that made it difficult to modify to produce something customized for each client.

I think that some customers are looking for reassurance that if they install the interim firmware release, that they can go back to the current firmware if they find something that for them is worse, just like they can for the Direct Stream DAC.

Good luck on getting everything fixed, and I look forward to the interim release.

clothes pen said

I am interested about the accumulation of grime on the lens and how do you correct that?

Hi Clothes Pen-

The grime on the lens is likely due to my stereo setup being within 25 feet of the kitchen. Over time everything in this area develops a thin layer of gray film that is easily brushed off but gradually becomes more and more opaque if it isn’t removed. This film finds its way inside my Oppo and the DMP and coats the laser lenses. Eventually, both units begin to have performance problems that begins with difficulty recognizing the SACD layer on hybrid discs and, for the Oppo, difficulty in playing blu-rays.

To remove the grime, I use a Maxell CD-340 cleaning disc when I notice the player begin to show the problems noted above. This works to a limited degree as the brushes on the disc tend to only clean the center of the lens and don’t do a very thorough job. Eventually it is necessary to open the unit and gently swab the lens with a clean, dry Q-tip or microfiber cloth. This involves removing the unit’s cover and then opening the housing that surrounds the transport mechanism. It’s also a good opportunity to remove any other debris like fuzz and lint that has made its way into the gears of the transport and to clean the rails on which the laser sled moves.

So far, the Maxell disc has kept the DMP going (mine is one of the original beta-test units) and I’ve only needed to open up the Oppo (a much, much older player) a few times. I also replaced the laser in the Oppo a few years ago when no amount of cleaning would restore functionality. If you use a cleaning disc like the CD-340, you should replace it periodically as the fine brushes eventually become soiled and worn and may do more harm than good.

-Pb

I use 99% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning the lens.

Paul,

Thank you for your honest and detailed reply above. I now feel more optimistic that I will be able to continue to enjoy my DMP. It’s also excellent news that your new director of engineering is a software guy. I think this will be a big help in future projects.

I look forward to testing the interim release of the DMP firmware.

bstanwick said

…My advice to PS Audio when hiring programmers is to stay away from people who have recently graduated and look for people with at least 5 years of real world experience and a glowing recommendation from a former employer.

Really? The two guys who wrote the software for the Lunar Module Guidance computer in Apollo 11 - Don Eyles and Peter Adler - were brand new graduates, and it was the first task given to them on day one at Draper lab in their first job after graduating. DE was given the more important task of writing the landing software (as he'd been with Draper for 6 months), and PA wrote the ascent software. At that point in the Apollo program getting on the moon was seen to be more important than getting off it, so the 6 months experienced programmer was given the landing software job. And DE was the guy who came up with a critical software patch mid-mission to save the Apollo 14 mission.

So don’t discount capabilities of recent graduates, the tricky part is to hire the right one.