About 2.5cm more space.
Anyway, when the transport is so expensive, assuming it costs £5,000, how can PSA halve the cost of the whole transport unit to $2,500 Marantz price, which includes the DAC?
It is and, if you take a close look, you’ll note we had to extend the bottom floor plate by about 0.3” lower. Look at the photo and you’ll see the area we had to coin out to make the drive even fit in the taller PW chassis.
So far the consensus is no.
If I’d buy the Perfect Wave Transport, it would be in combination with a Direct Stream DAC for complete synergy.
All we ask for in a Stellar SACD transport is the SACD drive with I2S, coax and Toslink digital output in order to utilize the I2S input of our Stellar Gain Cell DAC.
Taking Pauls answer a “No” for a Stellar SACD Transport:
I don’t see myself connecting a US$ 5000 to 6500 Perfect Wave SACD transport to a US$ 1600 Stellar preamplifier with integrated DAC.
For US$ 2000 Pioneer builds an equally rugged drive with 2 power supplies and completely separated digital and analog sections, balanced outputs with 2 SABRE ES9026Pro DAC chipsets.
Rugged enclosure made of thick steel and aluminum plates, and nice damping feet.
Bonus: it’s got a native 4k (not upsampled) HDR (HD10) Video stage to play BlueRay and DVD Audio as well.
What it doesn’t have is the looks of the Stellar and it is not Audio dedicated.
The problem I have Marantz equipment is:
Their fronts are attractive but only in a complete Marantz set. The design is too specific to put in a rack with anything else. And it is all single ended RCA connected.
The Pioneer has a more neutral (maybe boring) flat front. But that makes it easier to put in a rack with other brands and it has balanced analog XLR interface.
Maybe one day Stellar customers will have the option to buy a Stellar Octave player with I2S output from PS Audio. In which case the Pioneer is a nice option to connect to the SGCD balanced analog inputs if a SACD player is desired. Since the Stellar has only one I2S input.
Or, since we need to buy different brands anyway, connect an Innuos to the USB input of the Stellar Gain Cell DAC and forget about Octave and the I2S input on the Stellar all together.
If you want balanced outputs get the Marantz SA-10. It is the unit that the SACDM-3 drive was originally designed for, together with the upsampling technology and the DAC. It was designed to be state of the art and it probably is. The build quality looks better than anything PSA do. You won’t find any discounted, even used.
PSA’s styling is unlike anyone else, so it is no good complaining other units look different. Marantz have a house style and it has been unchanged for many years.
The Stellar GCD was very recently reviewed and measured in the UK by probably the main audio magazine here:
It came up with the same noise issue as reported by ASR, attributed to the Gain Cell. They were more positive about the M700 amplifier. ASR say that the level of noise from the GCD is so high that it can barely resolve a CD. HiFi News enjoyed the GCD/M700 combination, considered the Gain Cell added warmth at the expense of detail. So I wonder if there is any more detail to be gained SACD into the I2S input of the GCD if it has that level of noise.
Thank you Steven, this is perhaps a bit sad but useful information. The Stellar Gain Cell DAC may measure not well, but is sounds much better than what I used to have. It serves me well for the purpose in the home office (day time) / medIa room (evening).
You are right you can not fight over taste and front plates of equipment.
Being rather tired of begging for I2S Stellar sources, and having read the above information, I’ll simply ditch that desire and will not invest in Stellar equipment any further.
My current Stellar GCD configuration, Toslink TV in and USB in from the iMAC is sufficient. The Pioneer UDP-LX 800 will serve me well as universal player connected via HDMI to the 4k television and XLR to the analog input.
Marantz is a brand originating in New York that only started making SACD drives because their parent company at the time, Phillips, stopped making them. At that time Marantz was a fairly high-end brand and in mainstream audio it probably still is.
I never had any interest in SACD because it is a closed format, which is also why the recording industry generally ignored it. Add to that needing a proprietary format like I2S to use it and, however good it may sound, it’s not going to succeed commercially.
Audiophiles just have an unerring ability to like things that are commercially impossible because they just don’t understand why other people don’t appreciate the merits of arcane technology the way they do. For me that includes recordings on SACD, DSD files, DVD-A.
Conversely, MQA was the complete opposite, trying to market a product that actually has no benefits at all.
The GCD seems to be popular and enjoyable and does a job. It’s not high end hifi. SACD is high end hifi and so the two are probably not compatible.
1 Like
I was reading this from the Music Producers’ Guild.
And the commercial aspect:
1. Having a distinctly different format helps a label / artist target a different audiophile market place. In the same way they’d make a vinyl alongside CD and lossy download. It doesn’t affect the other markets – just enhances the product profile overall.
Yes, it is what it is. I wouldn’t mind connecting US$ or € 1000 - 2000 SACD / multi player / transport to the Stellar Gain Cell DAC.
It may not be considered high end, but for what I use it, it’s sounding more than good enough. “Stellar” so to speak ;-).
I think I have a £99 Sony in the loft that can play SACD. I wonder how good that is.
Having read the HiFiNews review of the SGCD, I wondered the I2S input is a bit of a gimmick, suggesting it can connect to a quality source from which it cannot actually produce better sound.
That does not detract from it clearly being an enjoyable component to listen to, doesn’t take much space and is a sensible price.
I read that as well and the reviewer was just plain wrong. In my experience, the multiplexing of the I2S data into S/PDIF and then the subsequent demultiplexing and extraction of the clock on the DAC end is always bad for sound. It’s what we built the original Digital Lens around - but you can only do so much to make S/PDIF sound right. The best way sonically to solve the problem is to not go through the process at all. I2S is demonstrable better than coax or USB.
2 Likes
Which is why Stellar Gain Cell DAC owners would so much appreciate a synergistic (price, looks, SQ) Stellar SACD transport and/or Octave player with I2S out.
1 Like
I thought Paul already said there will be a Stellar version of Octave. Must make the most out of the software development.
I think HiFi News were not concerned about the I2S connection, but the Gain Cell in the preamp. Reviewers can’t test the I2S input unless they have a DSD DAC or I2S transport.
I’m not sure what Paul was responding to, but using a non-PSA transport/DAC would involve connecting with an analogue line output.
According to Music Direct the new (September 2029) Marantz 30n SACD Player has a new
SACDM-3L transport mechanism.
“L” might stand for Light, as it seems to have been slimmed down a bit.
Clever feature is that it only powers up in use, so when using streamer and/or DAC there is no power pollution or vibration and less wear and tear on the motor.
There were some discussions on “Stellar” transport here. So I throw in mine 
Right now, I have SGCD/M700. Early this year I was looking for transport with comparable price to SGCD/M700. I came across https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-cd-box-rs2-t-pre-box-rs2-digital-cd-playerdac
Price at US$3000 from music direct in US. I was so interest on this one, even email to manufacture if it I2S on hdmi is “Standard”, they say “yes”. ( even SACD might not talk to SGCD in raw, but I think I2S should be a better connection.) However, since I have DSDAC, with intention to upgrade SGCD to BHK pre in the future and knowing PSA is working on PST, I hold my horse and wait for PST instead. I am very interested to hear from those who has RS2 says about it. (might still get it in the future.)
1 Like
The PST is based on the only “affordable” SACD drive that PS Audio could find, recall it was touch and go that the new player would even be SACD compatible. The SACD drive is most likely the most expensive component of the PST and, therefore, drives the price of the finished product. For a Stellar transport using the same drive, the price would be only slightly less. I have no specific knowledge of their pricing, but I think the best they could do for a Stellar SACD transport would be in the $4k - $5k range. I bet that’s not what you’re thinking. You referenced a $2k player, you certainly won’t be getting a Stellar SACD transport for anywhere near that price. Keep in mind PS Audio is a much smaller company than Marantz, so they don’t have the economies of scale that result in that low price. I do think PS Audio has a greater desire to produce the best sounding player they can and that is what we pay “extra” for.
2 Likes
Rudolf
Marantz (D&M) are not going to sell the drive units to outside competitors for what it costs them to make them for their own use. The OEM buyers are going to be the ones to help them recoup all the R&D and production costs. The other drive makers don’t sell to anyone that didn’t have an existing contract in place so within reason Marantz can charge what they want. Then again you are forgetting import cost and shipping. Oppo also sold their drive units for many times what they cost them to make for their own use and that’s the way of the world in the OEM business. As you’ve been told many times by those of us in the US and those in the EU you are better off looking for a complete system dynamic among the companies in the EU or the Far East companies that focus on EU sales. Steven has given you multiple options over the years as have others.
2 Likes
Man, where is your “Stop” button? It’s one thing to ramble, but your repetitive ramblings are literally sucking the air out of this forum. Get over it.
7 Likes
Rudolf
There is nothing in my post that is rude or anything than factual based on simple economics. What you need to do is put your “big boy” pants on when you decide to post theoretical nonsense based on what suits your own personal needs. Since even Paul himself has told you that the drive unit won’t fit in a Stellar case and the cost of the drive unit is too high then your options are to look in another direction. Like your “mentor” you continue to beat the same dead horses into the ground day after day.
Since I own over $22,000 worth of PSA components along with those from other companies that beat them in some areas I am open to buying what works best for a situation and if one company doesn’t sell it I look for one that does. Maybe try that philosophy on for size.
1 Like