Forum Moderation


#1

RE: Posts being moved to the Dead Zone thread.

ELK

I think we all owe a level of respect to the original poster of any given thread when it comes to the definition of “mess” or OT meandering. Our forum has traditionally been a place for topics, audio and other, where conversations were not subjected to censorship or, as one member put it, “flaming”. That was a long time member’s opinion [their post later moved]

While you might consider your views appropriate, it is a good exercise to also consider how others may perceive them. There are Forum Moderators as well as Community Leaders here who, when given a chance, greatly contribute to the tone and boundaries of the community discussions.

I realize that you could reply with a stream of literary panache but it is not my intent to begin a jousting event that would surely be out of place for the forum [ unless we set a time and place and sell tickets] so it is my hope, rather, that you just take a deep breath and chill just a tiny bit.

That UPS gal was a fine piece of kit and very worthy bearer of PSA quality equipment. Mind you, I do realize that could be subjective.


#2

I moved the pictures as I have received a number of complaints in the past that they are inappropriate. In this thread, the pictures were inappropriate - and additionally posted for the sole purpose of baiting. It was an easy call.

I hoped you would remove the first picture, and the initial baiting comments, after I asked you to “put the picture back under your bed when you are done with it.” This is what I referred to as cleaning up after yourself. The attempt at gentle humor and subtly on my part failed. I misread the situation. I should have quickly moved or deleted the posts.

The forum threads do often wander from topic to topic, completely appropriate. I move posts as off-topic only when they are clearly unrelated to the original topic and are taking over the thread.

Thus, for example, I moved the 30+ posts on problems installing firmware updates from the first pages of the impressions thread to its own dedicated thread. This benefited both the impressions thread and helped the frustrated user get the help he needed.

Significantly, I have moved OT posts from an existing thread less than the number of fingers on one hand - and I provide a link to the new location when I do so.

Perhaps more significantly, you are the only one to ever object. And this when I moved posts on the Aries and wireless connections which had overwhelmed a thread dedicated to Ethernet hard wiring. Perhaps I made a poor judgment call, but it appeared to me the Aries and connecting it wirelessly deserved its own thread. You moved the posts back and, IIRC, the thread unfortunately died as to both topics.

I do draw a fairly absolute line on personal attacks. These are unarguably inappropriate. However, it is completely appropriate to express a strong opinion in opposition to another’s opinion. This is the very purpose of any discussion forum; to exchange ideas.

I greatly value accurate timbre and microdynamics and will readily give up many other aspects of reproduction in exchange. I listen to classical music primarily. You may opine this is ridiculous, value PRaT over all else, and find classical music stupefyingly dull. Expressing this opinion as strongly as you care to do so is absolutely fine - just do not attack another member in doing so by calling them names, insulting their avatar, claiming they are psychologically impaired, etc.

Unfortunately, there are a very few who are uncomfortable with others holding opposing views. And they, in response, engage in personal attacks and ridicule of the writer instead of sticking to the topic itself. I will continue to delete/move these posts. Again, an easy call.

Thus, before posting, I ask that everyone think for a moment: Am I criticizing an idea or the person? If the later, do not click “submit reply.”

On the flip-side: Another relevant point of self-analysis may be, “If I post this opinion, can I handle it if someone disagrees with me?”


#3

Fair enough and you have clearly expressed YOUR views.

A community is made up of a multitude of personalities and many become inhibited to fully express themselves if it leads to potential confrontations, even over strong differences in subjective opinions. People remain and contribute to communities when they feel they are safe, informative and enjoyable. They are of course, the more silent majority.

All I suggested was that you keep that in mind and also when arbitrarily cutting up threads where members engage in conversations [ often that do not involve yourself] when they ramble off course, in your opinion, because this is how conversations among friends roll sometimes. This forum has traditionally been about exploring friendships as well as audio.

I never had content “complaints” from any members over the 3 years. must be a Nu-wave of discontent. Did you really have to nuke Mikey’s pic of someone who has been a PSA/Mikey mascot for many years? and on his own thread. I just found that a bit rigid and when I responded you moved the post. I too have the move/delete powers but I don’t follow you with a broom and dust pan Mrs. Doubtfire.

Feel free to smile, friend. I do.circle-of-hearts-smiley-emoticon_gifdrinking-39_gif

The Guru will now get back to more regularly scheduled and more enjoyable activities.


#4

I encourage discussion, including on this topic.

No one but you as asserted that I have “arbitrarily cut-up threads.” And even you expressed only one objection. As already noted, you moved the off-topic posts back and the thread died.

The other two or three times I have split threads, the individual threads continued on their merry way. I have split threads very rarely and only when it is clear one discussion is hampering the other - such as the firmware impressions v. please help issue described above.

As I also explained, I moved the admittedly very soft porn as others have complained. Additionally the pictures add nothing to a discussion of audio: applying a simple balancing test of audio v. prurient sophomoric interest, audio wins. Sorry. :) (If you and Blueknight would like to exchange such pictures there is always email.)

Please also keep in mind that I have never deleted a post merely because someone disagreed with my opinion. Rather, I engage in discussion. Sadly, you have deleted a significant number of my posts for the sole reason they expressed views contrary to your own. Blueknight has done the same.

Please keep in mind that an opinion contrary to yours, even a very strongly expressed one, is not a personal attack. Rather, it is merely another opinion, equally valid. Or invalid.

I continue to ask that you be tolerant of others’ on-topic opinions, and refrain from personal attacks, trolling, and name calling of me and of anyone else. I find this a productive, respectful distinction.


#5

oh, you again/

Last suggestion… do you ever read your own posts?

Just chill a little bit and you will be fine. We’re all enjoying our hobby here and making friends.

Geese and I though my Brit ancestors were stiff.sorry_gif77_giffacepalm-smiley-emoticon_gif


#6

Somewhat related and no doubt subject to deletion:

Several of my posts have disappeared in recent weeks, and none contained offensive content. The one that I can remember specifically was basically a ‘thanks for the interesting thread’ and I speculate was removed because it did not specifically add to or further the conversation. Still… ???

J.P.


#7

Well there is a possible issue if any moderator moves a post that is part of a communication between members or even makes a comment, it can kill the thread, as elk mentioned earlier. It would be like eaves dropping on a conversation and interjecting occasionally or editing without knowing the true gist of the communication. Although it is obvious that posted conversations are open to public view, it may not be as fluid or fun if the NSA is not only listening in but actually affecting the conversation. The moving of threads so that people who are NOT involved in the conversation may find it more “organized”, especially if done by someone other than the original poster, seems a bit arbitrary to me. Our forum visitors are adults and have rarely, if ever, required policing and the support area of the PSA site has loads of how to and help info so the forum is a gathering place to meet and communicate with friends about “subjects” that friends actually talk about. If balanced cables morfs into how to make the best martini, I think that in most cases we are intelligent enough to get back on track or start a new thread on our own.

Having “monitored” this forum for 3 years I will say, as elk is learning, that it is extremely time consuming and a responsibility that we all take seriously. This is why our Community Leaders and Beta team were formed so that the weight could be shared and it was the “community” that set the tone rather than having any posted rules. There were times when I raised an eyebrow at a post or thread but in every case the thread became self directing, controlled by tone and decorum, not regulation.

there were some newbies who came from perhaps different forum environments and when they picked up on our tone they either disappeared or became one of us. We are a very decent group here and even through the turmoils of the MKII upgrade and Bridge/network integration, everything remained civil and as we learned we used our new knowledge to help others.

This “tone” all starts with our leader, Paul, and now it is Paul and Scott. We are all hanging out in their living room and chatting about audio and about human stuff too. If we wish to perpetuate this environment then we all need to contribute and also to respect the tolerance that PSA has exhibited as it is part of what has made our forum different from others.

We have a new forum leader. Yes, I even nominated him. So I would be silly to expect everything to remain the same under a different watch. I did so because I felt he would be good at it and perhaps a good experience for him as well. I also realize that the above points are MY view and not necessarily shared by all but “differences” are very powerful and interesting when you can send the ego off on a holiday and see the value in those diffs and learn from them.

how about some parallel posts on interesting and varied topics like we used to have. Do we still have any interest in those? Of course, we need to keep them in separate threads. :-))


#8
how about some parallel posts on interesting and varied topics like we used to have. Do we still have any interest in those? Of course, we need to keep them in separate threads. :-))
If the subject is not somehow related to music or the equipment to reproduce it, I have no interest.

#9

Sure. I want to suggest one of my primary motivations for sponsoring these forums is fun, camaraderie, fellowship, humor and yes, of course, audio. And while many come here just to speak of audio and related items, others come for a good time and fellowship, perhaps a good laugh. I support all of these.

I think Elk’s doing a great job. Has he perhaps been a little stiff at times? Sure - in the same way I have been overly permissive - but that’s why we’re different. It’s ok.

I do want this forum to maintain a lightheartedness - one where we don’t take ourselves too seriously - at least not always. And yes, I appreciate a few topics on things other than audio.

We should refrain from offensive things, making people feel bad things. This should be a safe haven. No politics, nothing to make us depressed. There’s enough crap in the newspapers and television covering depressing things. This is a fun place. A place to learn. A place to come together, to be part of something, to challenge each other, to be inspired perhaps.

It’s also a place for us to share news of things: PS things, other things.

Let’s have fun and honor our Community Forums Leaders, Elk, the head beast, and in particular the newbies and members who take the time to read, participate, ask questions.


#10
wingsounds13 said Several of my posts have disappeared in recent weeks, and none contained offensive content. The one that I can remember specifically was basically a 'thanks for the interesting thread' and I speculate was removed because it did not specifically add to or further the conversation. Still... ???
This should never happen. I did not do it and hopefully no one else did. You should indeed be frustrated.
gordon said oh, you again/

Last suggestion… do you ever read your own posts?

Yes, as well as yours. :)

I have addressed each of your concerns. If I was unclear or you have a specific constructive suggestion, please let me know. I believe forum moderation should be a transparent process.

gordon said . . . The moving of threads so that people who are NOT involved in the conversation may find it more "organized", especially if done by someone other than the original poster, seems a bit arbitrary to me.
This could indeed feel arbitrary, but to my knowledge this has never occurred.

I have already addressed the two threads I recall splitting. The only significant move I ever made was to move Lonson’s problems with upgrading the DS firmware from your Paul’s firmware announcement thread. The discussion of his unfortunate issue overwhelmed the announcement thread. I moved the installation problem posts ( ~ 25 at the time) to a dedicated thread. This separate thread was continued to over 80 posts, hardly a topic killer. :)

Do you disagree with this decision on my part? Do you find this decision arbitrary?

The other was when I moved clearly off-topic posts discussing the Aries server and its wireless connection abilities from a thread entitled “Best Ethernet Cables.” Click here for the thread. The thread was happily percolating along when you suddenly posted about the Aries and connecting wirelessly - a great topic but wholly unrelated to the ongoing discussion of Best Ethernet Cables.

I moved the posts on the Aries to its own thread. You instantly moved them back. Instead of pushing this, I simply changed the thread title to accurately reflect its content. Given the speed in which this all occurred I doubt any momentum was lost. :)

I appreciate you disagreed with my original determination. I still believe it was a good call. The thread and posts are there if anyone else cares to review the context.

There truly are not other threads that have been split or merged, other than splitting the discussion of the Aries itself from Shiloh’s group purchase thread at his request. I linked to the new thread. I doubt this confused anyone, but please let me know if anyone got lost.

If you would be so kind, please be specific in letting us know where you perceive a problem was created or where you believe an action was truly arbitrary. I am happy to address the issue and to hopefully improve my efforts.

st50maint said If the subject is not somehow related to music or the equipment to reproduce it, I have no interest.
I suspect many share this view.

If everyone posts non-audio related items in the Humor, Brain, and other non-audio forums it would be easy to avoid topics not of interest. Generally forum members are quite good about this.


#11

I am scouring my memory for ways I may be restrictive. Two come to mind:

Soft Porn

It is a balancing act. As I explained, I received a number of complaints. Gordon states he did not a couple of years ago. I am certain his report is accurate.

Society is maturing into recognizing such pictures and sexist comments do not belong in mainstream culture.

This is an audio site meant for broad distribution. For me, it is an easy call when asked to balance soft porn and member complaints with a member’s interest in posting it: non-porn, audio discussion wins.

Personally, I have mixed feelings. Part of me finds it harmless, but 50 years ago living in Alabama I would have found racist images harmless.

My bet is in 20 to 30 years we would not be having this conversation. YMMV

Personal Attacks

I am unaware of a reasonable excuse/explanation for name-calling, asserting another has a psychological problem, insulting another’s intelligence, labeling another as resembling a less than flattering fictional character, personally demeaning comments, deliberate trolling, etc. For me, this is bright line which applies to all business and personal relationships, even casual encounters in public.

My experience is that it is a slippery slope; there are those who enjoy engaging in such behavior and, left unchecked, will continue to escalate. Very few enjoy the resulting culture.

On the other hand, at least in my view, opinions are fair game. You are free to disagree with anyone else’s opinion - especially mine. The result is an exchange of ideas and this can be vigorous. Please remember that even a frontal attack on your opinion is only that. It is not an attack on you personally. If you find yourself wanting to call a forum member names, back away from the keyboard.

Please just keep it on topic discussing concepts and ideas. “I hate tubes!” is perfectly acceptable, although not particularly enlightening; I would enjoy knowing why. “You are a slack-jawed, wrist-dragging, drooling Luddite for liking tubes!” is not acceptable.

Again, constructive suggestions and ideas actively sought and welcomed.


#12

“'You are a slack-jawed, wrist-dragging, drooling Luddite for liking tubes!” is not acceptable …"

Yeah, but it’s funny. 24_gif

To Elk’s point, let’s not be mean to each other - but a bit of rib poking’s fine and hoped for from time to time. If hairs on the back of one’s neck get raised, we should tone it down - but only a little. devil_gif

In the spirit of the holidays, let us rejoice together as friends in search of the best sounding stereo systems on the planet.

dancing-009_gif


#13
Paul McGowan said In the spirit of the holidays, let us rejoice together as friends in search of the best sounding stereo systems on the planet.
+1!

I’m off this week. Been spending a good part of today listening to jazz through my system, while attempting to get a repaired circulation pump reinstalled in my dishwasher. Ah, vacation time.dull_gifAt least there’s music!


#14

Such repairs are always frustrating. You spend time and money and then . . .you get what you had just days before: A working dishwasher!


#15

I think Paul’s got the balance right. I generally favor less, rather than more, interference with posts. Things can get a bit chaotic but that’s part of the game, IMHO. One exception is posts (including pics) that would reasonably offend particular groups, such as our few but valued women members. I’ve been on these boards almost from the beginning and there were times when things got pretty nasty (I’m thinking of one arena sound “engineer” who repeatedly went on the attack against Paul, claiming something or other couldn’t impact the sound; Paul survived). I would not have deleted those posts, although I did try to rebut many of them on the merits. One exception was a post by another member that made a joke about being raped–never funny or appropriate in my view (and that post should have been deleted, and maybe it was). Finally, what constitutes a “personal attack” rather than an attack on opinions, is often in the eye of the beholder. Tone matters a great deal in this regard. If you’re on the receiving end of an attack on your opinion or taste in music or anything else by someone implicitly or explicitly claiming superior knowledge or taste, you may find it hard to differentiate that from a personal attack. So my suggestion is to ask people to be civil and respectful, think about how they are saying things and not just what they are saying, and try to have some fun. If somebody steps over the line, call them on it (or better yet, send them a PM and politely point out the issue–and yes I know that’s been tried at times and doesn’t always work). Deleting posts is sometimes appropriate but should be rare and only as a last resort.


#16
But i don't agree. Must a thread advice give ? Okay, that would be better, when people good suggestions get. But i do think that a community should also be a sharing-place. iphone 6 plus handyhülle Not just advices but experiences. That's what i wanna say.