Going gapless -- Streamer for use with PWD?

I think the Bryston is really nice…the newer “2”

@Speeddeacon and other NAS users,



WaveStream will not work with a NAS. It is a Virtual Sound Card. It is installed on a PC, laptop, etc. All sound played by your PC is routed directly to WaveStream. It sound is the best I’ve heard through the PWD. You can direct your player on the laptop to find your NAS and your music.



I have a laptop in my listening room with all my music on a separate server. I love this system. It is silent. I can rip music while I’m listening if necessary. I can run software such as Fidelizer or jPlay to enhance the SQ which they do. To me the system is ideal. I’ll bet a lot of people have an old laptop they could use to run WaveStream and the player of your choice. To me jRiver and jRemote are a great combo that I’d recommend to anyone.



I know there are lots of proponents of the NAS. I know Paul did think that was the way to go at one time. I believe this is changed. One could find new laptops with fast processors etc. for $350 or less.

Hope this helps,

Steven

I love the sound quality of my PWD MkII plus Bridge. It really is a world-class DAC. But I've had it with lack of gapless, along with the longer-than-normal gaps between tracks that I often get on regular (non-gapless) tracks

So I can buy an external streamer, such as the Sonore Rendu or Simaudio Moon Mind. The Sonore looks intriguing because it could use the i2s inputs on the PWD for potentially lower jitter -- but it requires an Android controller, and I use an iPad. And, of course, adding another box, another power supply and another cable doesn't necessarily do anything for SQ. So I would really appreciate hearing from any PWD users who have used an external streamer that works well and is on a par with the PDW SQ.

Thanks - David


Hi David,

I got fed up a few months ago and bought a Simaudio MiND. This streamer has a native iOS control app but it is DLNA/UPnP compatible, so it will work with any control program. I use one called UPnPlay, on an Android phone. I find the sound quality of it going into my PWD-II to be comparable to the Bridge. So I would recommend the MiND as a unit to consider seriously, and take home for a trial if you can. Oh, I should say, it was designed with gapless playback in mind, and it works flawlessly.

Mike

perhaps this is a stupid question, but has anyone ever tried a basic usb-to-ethernet adapter to deal with these situations?

@mike48 Thanks – very helpful!



David

@Speeddeacon and other NAS users,

WaveStream will not work with a NAS. It is a Virtual Sound Card. It is installed on a PC, laptop, etc. All sound played by your PC is routed directly to WaveStream. It sound is the best I've heard through the PWD. You can direct your player on the laptop to find your NAS and your music.

I have a laptop in my listening room with all my music on a separate server. I love this system. It is silent. I can rip music while I'm listening if necessary. I can run software such as Fidelizer or jPlay to enhance the SQ which they do. To me the system is ideal. I'll bet a lot of people have an old laptop they could use to run WaveStream and the player of your choice. To me jRiver and jRemote are a great combo that I'd recommend to anyone.

I know there are lots of proponents of the NAS. I know Paul did think that was the way to go at one time. I believe this is changed. One could find new laptops with fast processors etc. for $350 or less.
Hope this helps,
Steven


Ok thanks for the info Steven. Two more questions:

How does WaveStream communicate with the PWD? Is it via the network to the Bridge or directly connected via USB?

Am I understanding that you can use whatever software you wish, e.g. EMM or JRiver, etc. and control them via their proprietary remote?

WaveStream is an ethernet interface, so it will send any PC audio to the Bridge. Yes, it should work with any software on the computer that produces sound, so you can pick your favorite flavor of player and remote,



J.P.

If functional, wouldn’t a USB-to-Ethernet device make WS just another option for Bridge users wanting gapless playback from JRiver, etc? I have not seen any comments on this method to my knowledge?

Hi,

I believe WaveStream will output to USB and the Bridge though I could be mistaken about USB.



Alekz where are you? Can you confirm USB. But if you have the Bridge I don’t think you may care about USB. The Bridge sounds the best according to most.



As for software, the answer would be yes. Be aware that unless Paul has other plans there probably will not be more work on EMM/eLyric. Thus I no longer use them or test them. Really the work the guys have done with jRiver really caught it up to EMM. Once you have experienced jRiver, jRemote, and Wavestream, I don’t think you will be interested in others. Although people have used WaveStream with Foobar, MediaMonkey, YouTube, EMM, and others with success.

Steven B-)

sgrowan said: I believe WaveStream will output to USB

No, UPnP only.
sgrowan said: Alekz where are you?

Here ;)
sgrowan said: I don't think you may care about USB.

Very true. I actually do not care much about WaveStream either, because mostly I use a NAS. WaveStream (when ready) is a nice thing to have, but not the ultimate solution.
sgrowan said: Although people have used WaveStream with Foobar, MediaMonkey, YouTube,

Not very useful for YouTube because the sound and video are not synchronized (15 sec delay).
WaveStream depends on a computer to work and it's unlikely we'll be able to make a version that runs only on a NAS.
I hope this isn't Paul-speak for a Silent Server (or its equivalent) that will not be debuting after all.

I also can't help noticing what a sea change WaveStream is from original intention with the Bridge, which was to eliminate the need for a computer from the listening area. I hear some of you alpha-testers claiming that with WaveStream, a computer, and the Bridge, the PWD has never sounded better. But personally I would need a heck of a lot more convincing -- if I am going to have to use a computer anyway -- that using the Bridge that way would substantially beat forgetting about a Bridge and going with the best implementation possible of the same (or similar) computer over a USB connection.

rlabarre said:
I also can't help noticing what a sea change WaveStream is from original intention with the Bridge, which was to eliminate the need for a computer from the listening area.

It was never the intention. WaveStream was always supposed to be used with a computer (Mac or Win).

Alekz, I think that you missed the end of that sentence: “which was to eliminate the need for a computer from the listening area”.



You only need a computer in the listening room if you are using USB or a SPDIF connection from the computer to the PWD. With the Bridge, the computer can be anywhere on the network. WaveStream does not require you to have the computer close at hand unless there is not remote control for the program you are using. You can remote almost any program if you can connect your Android tablet or iThing to the computer with a Remote Desktop connection.



So, there is no change from the original concept of using the Bridge with a remote data source.



J.P.

@gordon Regarding “someone” getting it right, most of the stream receivers not designed in the USA will do gapless. I know of Canadian, Japanese, and British ones that do it without anything special. It is mainly the US manufacturers ( I know of PSA and Oppo, plus one I investigated whose name I have forgotten) that have dropped the ball on this.

@gordon Regarding "someone" getting it right, most of the stream receivers not designed in the USA will do gapless. I know of Canadian, Japanese, and British ones that do it without anything special. It is mainly the US manufacturers ( I know of PSA and Oppo, plus one I investigated whose name I have forgotten) that have dropped the ball on this.

And this german one that I have purchased 2 of also do gapless:
http://www.teufelaudio.com/raumfeld-audio-streaming/raumfeld-connector-2-p9527.html#tab4

wingsounds13 said: WaveStream does not require you to have the computer close at hand unless there is not remote control for the program you are using. You can remote almost any program if you can connect your Android tablet or iThing to the computer with a Remote Desktop connection.


You mean PSA will supply all WaveStream users with a tablet? :D RDP... or SSH to the WaveStream box with X-forwarding... Can it be even more complex?

No, really, not many programs support remote control. WaveStream is not a good solution for remote listening and usually does require having a separate computer in the listening area.

Hi Alex and All,

Really not a NAS user, but I could use my Windows 8 machine I use as a Server, install jRiver, WaveStream, and jRemote, and not have any computer in my listening room. I could use a an iThing or a Droid tablet of some kind in my listening room as a remote just as easily. And I would have the same setup as most NAS users. I believe I’ve read where some people have installed software on a NAS, maybe they are not all capable

Really, Alex, you NAS guys have to use something to use as a remote to select your music. Right.

I don’t think it would ever be PS Audio’s job to supply one. Paul never promised this. And I believe he has explained why a NAS may not be the best solution. After all a NAS has a built in computer that makes them work. Some of the CPUs and operating systems may be more robust then others.



Alex, thanks for the clarification concerning USB and WaveStream I hadn’t tried it so was not sure. Also good to know about your results with YouTube. I would never want to hear YouTube stuff through my stereo anyway but each to his own.



Riabarre,

You are more than welcome to come by my home and hear it for yourself. I live in the St. Louis let me know when you want to stop by, if you don’t trust my ears. I’m sure Wavestream will be available soon for all to try for 30 days.

Steven B-)

sgrowan said: Really, Alex, you NAS guys have to use something to use as a remote to select your music.

We do use remote UPnP controllers with UPnP servers running on a NAS. But I prefer a web-interface (SqueezeServer-like).
sgrowan said: Some of the CPUs and operating systems may be more robust then others.

Oh, absolutely. Hence I prefer UNIX over Windows :D
sgrowan said: install jRiver, WaveStream, and jRemote,

Why in order to use PWD/Bridge do I have to pay for yet another 3d party product, which works only on Windows (yes, I know about beta MAc-version)?

Easy, use Foobar2000 - it is free. It may even run under wine. Of course a bit of wine running in you might not hurt too. :smiley:



J.P.

Hi All,
... we have the tools we have. And WaveStream is a good tool. Maybe a great tool! ... And let's look at the possible cost of the software, WaveStream for PWD and Bridge users free. JRiver $50 I believe at first with reasonably priced yearly optional updates. JRemote $10 for lifetime. Wow I bet some people spend more than that a month in ATM fees or fancy coffee.
...


Thanks, Steven. I for one certainly plan to give WaveStream a try when it arrives. And I think JRMC is cheap at the price: it's the best music tagging and cataloging program I've tried.

The concern I have is controlling WaveStream. For those with an iPad, JRemote is well reviewed and cheap enough. I don't have an iPad, have no other reason to own one, and I have not heard of any other decent remote control program for JRMC. (JRiver's own Gizmo is good enough for a trial run, but hopelessly short on features for everyday use.) I don't like the idea of buying an iPad just to see if I like WaveStream or not, but it seems that WaveStream is not very useful without one. Or have I missed something?