I haven’t seen any statements or 3rd party measurements that explains the slide above, click here
Yes, you mentioned this earlier and @andrewc and I briefly discussed this earlier. He acknowledged harmonic distortion of the incoming AC sine wave is cleaned up by the Power Plant, but notes incoming high frequency noise appears to remain.
As I previously noted, I am unable to address this, possessing insufficient knowledge. Perhaps someone qualified will address this.
I however do not understand why you quoted my comment about integrity. Are you claiming someone is lying, misrepresenting something, is dishonest?
Yes I know you are not qualified to address this.
My point was even the newer YouTube video of P15 doesn’t address this, so there is still some clarity requested by a few people, including current Power Plant owners above
My query is purely a technical query…
9 months you reported that you bought a P3 and were shocked how good it was, with instant positive results. You bought it based on a recommendation from a friend who bought a P12.
Why the change in your attitude?
You were happy to buy on a recommendation something you thought was snake oil. I commend you for that. Now you demand exacting measurements for a product you were delighted with?
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You’re not going to get any new information to explain that graph. Paul already told us why the FFT looks the way it does. These newer Powerplants aren’t doing full AC>DC>AC regeneration to create a brand new power sinewave. They’re doing a partial regeneration by adding/subtracting to the peaks while keeping the base of the wave from the Mains input. That’s why the noise floor is actually higher in the Powerplants output, because the amp in the Powerplant sums with the original Mains noise. That’s why some interference can make it through as described by an owner above.
Unfortunately the marketing and using terms like “full new perfect sinewaves” could lead the average consumer to expect full power regeneration from scratch. The best I can tell from Paul’s own posting above is the newer Powerplant models are designed for higher efficiency (because they now don’t have to reproduce the full power sinewave from scratch) rather than less efficient full AC>DC>AC power regeneration.
Paul’s reasoning for this appears to be that what is actually making your equipment sound better is a combination of the lower input impedance (although unclear that the HC outlet actually is lower, ASR testing shows it to be substantially higher due to some implementation of an in rush current limiter, PS Audio stayed away from that outlet in their rebuttal video so that’s still an open question), partial regeneration, and lower distortion. Partial regeneration and lower distortion aren’t being questioned/doubted by anyone, just whether they make any audible difference for an audio device plugged into the wall Mains versus a Powerplant.
Testing with both a switching mode and linear power supply (the two most common types used in audio equipment), a headphone amp, and a speaker power amp didn’t show a measurable change in the output of these devices. Audibility thresholds from AES and other sources exist for these types of measurements, so it is fair to say there isn’t any measurable change that would be audible. This is also the expected behavior because the power supplies in these devices are designed to crush the AC wave down to DC and filter it for use in their internal circuits. They also usually operate at significantly lower internal voltages so the 5V or so voltage sag you see on a heavily used line doesn’t manifest as an issue when you’re stepping down to 12V, 5V, 3.3V, etc. that these devices use.
In the end the data, measurements, and science involved are published and available for anyone who wants to investigate on their own. There doesn’t seem to be much more that can be done to demonstrate what these Powerplant devices do. PS Audio could try to show the measured output impedance of the LC, and especially the HC (that’s where you’re supposed to plug a power amplifier right?) outputs to clarify what’s going on there. This was missing from the rebuttal video. They could also show the Powerplant demonstrably affecting the output from a connected amplifier, something like that. That’s about it.
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You could do what your fellow traveller @NordicDave did, buy one, plug it in and enjoy the benefits. He was a delighted PS Audio customer 9 months ago. Amir the Merciless seems to have got under his skin and his audio life has become far more complicated.
Demonstrably, this difference can of course be shown as a measurement but the best demonstration is by ear. “Audio science” is very limited at this time in correlating measurements with perceived benefits! Remember, manufacturers in the development phase commonly change parts such that the device measures the same but sounds clearly different - to be able to actually pick out these differences in terms of electricals would require a whole new method of comprehensive measurement that would most likely require measuring pretty much every single node in a circuit and even that might not do, it could be that the workings of every passive component should be intrusively measured as well to bring out a given change (for every single component changed - each one will bring its own reactive and resonant qualities to the whole circuit, these are not linear systems!)
Might be we’d have to integrate chaos theory, quantum physics and really everything to the table of electrical engineering to be able to truly measure why something makes an audible difference the way it does.
People like to make “audio science” seem comprehensive and meaningful by common methods of electrical engineering standards - not enough. Even the best Audio Precision tools can not capture nearly everything of what clearly counts to our ears.
ASR is based on a “science” that is in its beginning stages.
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I never thought about that. I suppose the next time we endeavor to do something like this we’ll try and remember to use the other scope. Thanks for helping me understand.
This thread may be of interest:
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You stated:
“These newer Powerplants aren’t doing full AC>DC>AC regeneration to create a brand new power sinewave.”
Amire stated in his review:
“At high level, yes it is an AC regenerator capable of producing less distorted AC waveform.”
Additionally, I may be slightly colorblind, but to me, the noise indicated in the right graph IS less than the one on the left. But that may be a difference in opionion…
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The output shown in the right graph is lower, especially the harmonics of the incoming 60Hz. This demonstrates the Power Plant is doing what it claims to accomplish.
Critics however maintain the high frequency noise should not be present, assert this noise indicates the Power Plant is not a “real” regenerator, and opine the Power Plant does not do anything meaningful.
It truly comes down to whether one hears an improvement in their system while using a Power Plant. Of course, if you do not hear an improvement, send it back. Or, like @NordicDave you may be blown away as he stated in his thread, Just Bought a Regenerator - WOW :
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I would appreciate it, too! Thanks.
From a friend and it is appropriate here:
It seems like almost everything involved in high end audio is designed to actively remove any enjoyment involved in listening to music.
I guess we should enjoy the shred of a percentage that isn’t “almost everything”.
@Shazb0t I think Paul has already addressed the HC outlets. The P12 circuitry under normal operation switches out the current limiter via a relay. And I can accept that. However, as with all used equipment being tested, who knows the history of the unit sent to ASR. It appears that it needs to be inspected for repair if it does not perform this function.
As an aside, I had to chuckle at the term “designed to crush the AC wave down to DC” since the PS first rectifies, (one way valves) and then regulates (if it is in fact a regulated supply) via whatever the transformer tap ratio may be. However, I see no “crushing”… Just sayin’
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Regarding the PowerPlant’s ability to attenuate AC line noise, particularly higher frequency spectra, please read my posts in this thread, “Power Plant and Noise”, starting from this post:
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And… especially the thread “Powerplant Peak Current and Noise Filtering Capability” mentioned on this post:
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Your observations are one of the reasons I already linked this entire thread a few posts up.
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@John_H There are benefits and drawbacks to any design topology. If you want pure isolated Class AB regeneration, it comes at a cost (literally) of efficiency.
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Thank you, Elk!
Thought I’d provide everyone a few more specific pointers 
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Absolutely appropriate. 
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