Was this measured and approved by the committee 
Best wishes
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All of this number talk has me wanting a particular Iron Maiden album. Hopefully every knows that album without googleâŚ
If one of the many ASR people joining us lately would please entertain my questions that are philosophical; epistemic, and metaphysical in nature.
As a paradigm shift, how do you measure the quality of a person? How can one tell that a particular person is a very welcomed addition to said personâs innermost circle? We can talk about good qualities for a person to have, and even measure some things, create little tests whatever.
But, at the end of the day, the tests might still leave something undetected thatâs just, wellâŚvery, very douchey about the person. Shoot! We missed the test relating to person quality âAâ that is so important, and well now we have a douchey friend. Ugh. This blows.
Ok, not dissimilar to audio measurements! A piece of kit might sound douchey for some reason and measure well. How do you determine that youâve looked at the most important measurements anyway? I have a recent Denon that sounds kinda douchey. My old Yammie was nice though.
Cheers.
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@tak1313 Some tests reveal more important information than other tests. Such as testing THD without testing IMD, when we know IMD has a much greater impact on performance than THD. Or a single tone sweep rather than twin tone, or even better, complex musical information.
As far as equipment is concerned, Iâm in the mindset that less is more when it comes to the number of devices and if I can get in one package as much of the requirements I am seeking, the better.
Having said that, my entertainment needs encompass much more than a 2 channel system, however, 2 channel performance is paramount in the choices. I use a consumer device for source, and it brings with it many desired options I wanted, but as with most consumer grade solutions, the analog section leaves a lot to be desired. Thatâs why I feel so lucky to have the skills to make changes at the device level to mold it to be exactly what I want.
Some donât realize that some consumer grade options, take Pioneer for example, had partnered with B&O to produce their AVRâs and a simple internal inspection reveals Bang & Olufsenâs logo on all of itâs component boards.
I utilize both old school (external amp) and new school offerings (source) to get to the system I wanted and having done this for so many decades, knew exactly what I wanted from a sound perspective. Only one D/A conversion at 1 DAC, (ESS 9026PRO) and after 1 I/V (OPA-1612) and 1 buffer, (OPA-1612) Iâm in the input stage of the amp. Less is more. Happy is the person who gets thereâŚ
I agree - some tests are more ârelevantâ than other in differing situations. My point was I would NEVER buy any audio equipment just because it measured well - unless it was just to test/see/try out, but it would have to by pretty cheap for me to buy something âblindâ just on the specs.
Iâm pretty sure even Amir didnât decide on his Levinson amp and Revel speakers just because it measured well, which kind of defeats his argument of âif it measures well enough, you canât get better.â
(post #527)
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@tak1313 I guess I should have elaborated more on the tests, I feel as you do. A simple single tone sweep or a THD or power comparison cannot define itâs timbre, which is the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity. Case in point was to your comment on tube amplification. A tube amp that measures 1% or 2% THD at itâs rated output (and thatâs really good for tube) by reason of the signal causing the tubes to start to ring can certainly sound stellar. At Altec, we used to build the well known 1570B (811A based) and if you pull the 70Hz. filter from in front of the driver stage and reduce feedback just a bit you can have flat 15Hz to 100,000Hz response.
The DIY module is exactly the same module PS Audio uses. Thatâs why ASR said that. What it means is that PS Audio implemented the module properly. Proper grounding, power supply, layout, whereas many DIYers donât understand these engineering details and donât address them properly.
So here ASR is complementing or at least recognizing, that PS Audio knows how to build good amplifiers. Doesnât seem biased to me.
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Apologies if you see my posts as being a pest. Iâve never been much for dogma.
This doesnât sound very gracious or complimentary to PSA engineering or marketing.
âIt is a sigh of relief that PS Audio had not managed to reduce the performance of the ICEPower modules. Response and sonic abilities are completely determined by those modules unlike what PS Audio marketing says.â
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This is just another reinforcement that proves Amir does not know what he is talking about. Everyone knows that the sonic performance of ICE models are definitely improved by an input stage that is properly designed.
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No dogma. Only a dead horse.
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exactly what I was saying. Complementing via an insult.
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A dead horse thatâs now at 535 posts!
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Yep âŚand past time to lock it up and put 'er to rest
Best wishes
I am told heâs now trying to prove power cables make no difference by actually powering up the AP with a high end power cable to show it works the same.
This is beyond my comprehension of how someone as obviously as smart as he is could possibly dream up that methodology. Me thinks maybe he didnât actually do that or perhaps an April Fools joke?
Tell me it isnât true.
Paul McGowan | CEO800-PSAUDIO
Boulder, Colorado
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I was taught in both Mechanical Engineering and Economics that we should always be aware that we donât know what we donât know.
I think he doesnât know what he doesnât know.
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His measurements of the magnepan LRS was an even bigger joke, he measured them at 1 meter. He also pretty much said listening to just one speaker gave him a pretty good idea of the imaging capabilities.
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@wobblewobble You can educate yourself from the largest, most respected cable company in the world, the Defacto Standard in cable production. Belden. Do power cables really matter? The simple answer is, âyes!â See below;
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Thanks, Glimme. I see the logic better now though it still makes no sense in the practical.
We have the same equipment. Not sure how many people actually know the AP products but for those that have them or use them Iâll try and make some sense of this.
The AP is agnostic to its power cable with respect to shielding and noise. It reaches its numbers with or without a shielded power cable. I can use an off the shelf POS lamp cord plug and get the same results as guaranteed by AP. The noise floor of the device is not a function of the incoming AC. Thatâs built into the design.
Not surer what this possibly has to do with a power cord making an audible difference on, say, a power amp.
Itâs a shame that this groupâs clear and obvious mission is to prove what they believe is not trueâand then wrapping it in a cloak of science.
Approaching something with a strong bias is not science.
A true scientist approaches the subject with an open mind (or at least is open minded enough to change their views once shown evidence to the contrary). The only person on this forum that comes to mind (including myself as I am not a scientist) is Beldenâs former chief engineer, Galen Gareis. If this crowd really was interested in the âmeasured truthâ theyâd team up with him and maybe help further our communityâs understanding.
But, thatâs clearly not in their self interest. Not when youâre on a mission to prove yourself right.
Itâs like the Crusades.
For me, I simply seek the truth behind what works for the projects and mission I am personally on.
Thatâs enough for one lifetime.
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A post was split to a new topic: Is there a way to measure a fuse why it can make a change on how a system sounds?
I have deleted a good number of recent off-topic posts, as well as post consisting of bickering.
Yes, the thread could be shut down, but the topic of Power Plants, power supplies, power cords is perfectly appropriate.
Please be civil, make an honest attempt to understand each other, and respectfully discuss the topic.
Thank you!
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