Hi all, seriously considering adding a pair of F12 subwoofers to my B&W 802D (1st gen) speakers. Currently using BHK preamp and BHK 300 monoblocks.
Questions that come to mind are:
- How will the F12’s work with my 802D’s?
- How do they connect to my preamp or amps?
- How difficult will it be to place and adjust the settings on the F12 or will i tweak them every time I sit down to listen to the system?
- Between my preamp, and amps, will a standard 15 amp circuit be able to handle the power requirements?
Basically, stuff like that…. I’ve spent countless hours placing my 802D’s, swapping cables, and changing PCM settings. It get very frustrating after awhile.
Please, your thoughts…. Art
Well, it will not be a set it and forget it, at least at first. It will take time to experiment with placement, crossover and volume, as with any sub. That being said, I actually did not spend much time setting up my REL sub, as I had already gone through the work with a previous Infinity subwoofer, it wasn’t difficult to apply similar settings to the new REL sub.
I do think your 802D speakers will improve with a subwoofer.
I do not have your monoblock amps nor the F12 sub, so I cannot comment on connecting amp to sub. Chances are your future F12 subs will not draw much power.
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These are great questions.
- I would agree with adifferentpaul that subs would be a great way to improve the performance of your system. While one sub is good, we typically recommend two for smoother in-room response, at this level of system performance.
- Connection is very easy. you have the option of RCA or XLR (from your preamp), speaker level (from your amp or speaker) or RCA from your preamp to our wireless transmitter (if you are locating the subwoofer away from your equipment rack).
- All setting can be adjusted from your listening position via our “foundry control” phone app, though basic settings like level, crossover and phase can also be set from the rear panel controls.
- placement of subs is important but the app controls help dial things in a lot easier than a passive speaker (as you have more control to dial things in). The built-in auto EQ is a good starting point but you can tweak more if you want.
- recommended subwoofer locations are shown in our product manual.
- https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0672/2283/1394/files/Foundry_f12_Subwoofer_Manual_Rev_A1.pdf
- The subwoofer amp is 95% efficient but can draw about 1000 watts at full tilt. You should still be OK on a single 15 amp circuit.
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Please don’t mind me for being naive about subwoofers, it’s a new territory for me. I’ve heard that REL subwoofers connect to the power amplifier, but the F12 connect to the preamplifier. So since my interconnects to my monoblocks are XLR, I would then use the RCA output for the subwoofers, no matter how long the distance? Also, what type of cable would I use and is it provided with the F!2?
Poke around Chris’s post here on the forum for his politely issued opinion on high versus low level connection to subs as well as the importance of cable quality. Personally, I would recommend the wireless which only connects via RCA to low level. It is trivial to set up and RELatively cheap as the receiver is already built into the sub. Connecting this way removes a significant barrier to trying different sub locations. I’m still exploring a platform with wheels to make it easier to relocate. Chris has weighed in that there isn’t sonic value to putting anything under the sub.
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It does seem to make sense to use the wireless option, since placement can potentially use long runs of RCA cable, since my XLR outputs are dedicated for the monoblocks.
Does it matter what quality of cable to use between the preamp and the wireless unit? For example, I’ve had incredible differences between the two brands of interconnects i use from my CD to preamp. Also, a friend of mine that has a REL subwoofer, connects them from the amplifier using REL supplied cheap looking wire (I was surprised).
Also, if you use the wireless option, I assume it uses two RCA cables (left/right). If i were to just use one subwoofer, does it convert the subwoofer output to mono?
Also, Also (lol), if i use two subwoofers anyone have a preference between stacking the two or putting them in different locations?
I am reluctant to speak for Chris but I recall him saying that it cable quality for low frequencies is not important. I also recall him saying high level versus low level connection isn’t important and that what you rest the subwoofer on doesn’t matter. But he was “gentle” on the first two, presumably because his opinion doesn’t jive with Paul’s
If you have only 2 subs, put them in different locations to reduce room modes. Do not stack them.
if you use the wireless option, I assume it uses two RCA cables (left/right). If i were to just use one subwoofer, does it convert the subwoofer output to mono?
That’s nice, because I think other subwoofers, if you use just one, you connect it to only the right or left channel.
My REL Carbon Special, connected high-level to the positive amp outputs, has signal from the red left and red right speaker outputs from my amplifier.
oh, what type of cable to you connect to the amp outputs? I’m bi-wiring my speakers so I don’t have any empty terminals, unless it’s a thinner wire to combine with one of the speaker cables at the terminal
The banana connectors are the main speaker cables and the red and yellow wires are REL basic blue cables which go to the speakon connection on the back of the subwoofer.
That’s similar to what my friend has when i said “a friend of mine that has a REL subwoofer, connects them from the amplifier using REL supplied cheap looking wire (I was surprised).” Doesn’t seem like a high quality interconnect cable
REL basic blue is relatively inexpensive. At $449 it is not a crazy expensive multi-thousand dollar speaker cable, but is designed to have enough length at the amp end connectors to be able to fit with an amp that has outputs further apart, or with a pair of monoblocks.
It’s a sub. You don’t need Cardas Clear (or any high dollar cable) to connect to a subwoofer. Some may use it anyway which is fine. But my guess is REL has not run with the standard Neutrik connector (included with S and Reference series) for years because it somehow detracts on performance.
To get back to the main reason for my original post, I misspoke when I asked how difficult it is to physically setup a pair of F12 subwoofers. What I was really asking, is how difficult is it to configure a pair of F12 subwoofers with my existing 802D speakers. Is it relatively easy to configure to say get 80% of the F12’s potential (just as an example, where the last 20% is achieved by becoming an expert in this area) ?
In reality it is not that difficult. The subs will add lower bass extension that you thought you already have but in reality don’t have. But you will have to experiment a little to get everything just right. Once you have subwoofers in your system, you will never want to go without.
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Yes. Part of the WiSA wireless standard is from a 7.1 channel idea. The sub channel is mono. This (mono signal) is also best for optimizing a subwoofer array for smoothing room modes.
However, if you want to wire them in a stereo configuration, you can do that with a wired input ((either line level or speaker level).
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