Yup - Steve, let us forget the uninformed opinions expressed hereabouts lately ; ). The early guesstimate on the BHK Phono was $10k. No idea if that is low or what, as it is Yet Another Future Product That Does Not Exist : ). As mentioned, when you are working with established geniuses like BHK, I really don’t think most real potential buyers care a whole lot.
Indeed at least buyers of single components into another setup won’t care.
And the typical audiophile knows, if he buys one component above his usual range he will sooner or later arrive in the higher range completely…so in this regard not a sales disadvantage long term 
Then your perception differs very much from how Paul sold the Stellar series in his video last year. Signature / BHK line for money no object audiophiles and Stellar for enthusiasts that have to mind their budget.
If PS Audio then changes that philosophy while Customers bought in on the above referred video messages / multiple promises, then don’t be surprised those customers complain when the philosophy got changed.
And please spare me the argument that I got it all wrong, a year ago when I decided to set money aside for the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, that was the message.
And for me, having to pay the official sales price, not a 50% discount price, US$ 2500 vs US$ 1700 (EUR 3000 vs EUR 2000) is certainly not the same ballpark. Especially not for a Phono Preamp that is supposed to sit between a US$ 1000 - 3000 turntable and a US$ 1700 pre amp with DAC and headphone amp and maybe US$ 1600 power amplifier.
Perhaps I am the only one thinking that the cost of the Stellar Phono Preamp is disproportionally positioned / priced, but what I described is most Stellar customers situation as you will find many Stellar system pictures on the PS Audio web site.
So let’s agree to disagree and other than that I feel rather fooled by being sold a EUR 1800 (EUR 255 less then EUR 2055 list price) that is followed up by a whopping EUR 3000 Phono preamplifier, PS Audio are indeed totally free to ignore their customers perception and do whatever they like.
But other companies got at least their product positions and price levels in a much better order, both internationally on both sides of the pond and from a system philosophy point of view. Actually a have no ties whatsoever to hat company, actually Paul was the person pointing their quality out to me in again his videos, as PS Audio sells the Sprout with “excellent” ELAC speakers. When other then point ELAC equipment out, that very post gets deleted, not moved like the other posts.
Really cool! 
I, for one, just can’t follow your logic with regard to your price level complaint. The new phono preamp appears, to me, to sit squarely in the price range of the other Stellar kit:
- S300 - $1,499
- M700 - $2,988/pair
- Power Plant 3 - $2,199
- Phono Preamplifier - $2,499
What am I missing?
Cheers.
I think many of us view Rudolph position here as bizarre. I don’t understand the inability to just go and to listen to music. This thread has gone on for too long. It’s Paul’s company and he can do as he chooses. If Rufolph wants this Phono Preamp we will box it in a DS case and the cost issue will be resolved.
He wants it to be priced the same as the Audio Alchemy piece which is part of a line being completely subsidized by Elac speaker sales to go with their speakers. It is the reason they bought out AA. If you want Walter will make you a hell of a deal on any of the AA line.
What I said was:
SGCD 1699
S300 1499
Turntable 1000-3000
Phono Preamp 2499 !?
If you find that proportional buy it.
Tho other brands, excellent quality products:
Pre amp DAC streamer 2499
Power amp, stereo / mono 1499
Turntable 1000-3000
Phono preamp 999
As for me that seems to be much more in relation for its purpose and the budget.
But apparently many seem to agree to disagree.
Then the answer to your dilemma is simple. Sell your PSA products and buy the “excellent quality” subsidized AA products and move on. No matter how long and hard you continue to complain and make your arguments nothing is going to change.
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Not so sure nothing is going to change. As a customer I provide feedback and a quality minded company typically does something with it.
The problems with selling my PS Audio unit are:
- I get way less back then what he paid for
- with the design/production issues my unit has its even going to be worse.
So anyway, it does have a negative impact on the customer.
I will keep the SGCD in my home office, where I don’t need the HT function. The fact that PS Audios is not able to consequently display bitrates on a EUR 1800 unit speaks for their attention to details and quality mindset.
The sound quality is good though, so keeping it does me less harm than selling it.
I bought it to get into high end, but for my application, the built / design quality is not high end enough for what I have to pay for and expanding with additional units, well that is what I tried to explain earlier.
There are also many customers who want to do - I am not one of them, as I pay my taxes with pleasure - the new Stellar Phono Preamp costs in Denmark 3.301,75 USD.
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Personally speaking I don’t find the SPS to be too expensive. In the UK the SPS costs £2495 pounds sterling. The Stellar power plant costs £2310. You have to factor in that a product(s) will cost more if they sport linear power supplies! I buy on sound quality and I pay what it costs to obtain it! I own 6 phono amplifiers and the best MC phono amplifier I’ve heard, and by a distance, www.rega.co.uk/aura-mc-stage.html
If the SPS performs similarly it will be playing on hallowed ground, but at £1500 less than the reference phono amplifier in my collection, which will make it an absolute bargain! Time will tell… And what does the Rega Aura cost in the U.S? ( $6K ) It’s all relative.
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Dirk, that is what I said, Darren’s Phono Preamp is Signature BHK material.
From a sound quality and price perception clearly targeted at people like you who, for whom money seems to be no object (hence your 6 Phono preamps).
Since I am not in that position, the only Phono Preamp I own is integrated in my AV Receiver and yet I utilize it (hence my interest in upgrading), I would have said nothing if Darren’s piece of art were marketed and boxed in the Signature / BHK series. That is not my ballpark. I may had said something about about the missing balanced inputs, which PS Audio could easily have included in a unit in the Signature / BHK series.
A Phono Preamp is typically 1/4 to 1/3rd of the cost of the turntable including tonearm and cartridge. Maybe half the price. Certainly a EUR 6000 to EUR 12000 turntable is not a product in the category how Paul sold promoted the Stellar line in his videos.
So perhaps that Phono Preamp is a high end candidate and telling by Darren’s enthusiasm and the beta test results it probably is. But from a budget and promoted product line point of view it is disproportionately priced.
I would have loved to see a Phono Preamp that is high priced. EUR 999 is still a lot of money, but that would allow me to upgrade my turntable and cartridge to the Stellar level as well.
Paul invites newcomers to high end audio, younger people would be appreciated, the Stellar series was promoted for that purpose, I am certain EUR 3000 for the cheapest Phono stage put the bar too high for many.
As SGCD owner I don’t need a sprout power stage, DAC and Preamp with the Phono Preamp, that is included in the SGCD. So nobody buying into the Stellar series needs a Sprout Phono Preamp although that unit costs just US$ 600 or whatever the equivalent in EURO’s is. There is an enormous sound quality margin PS Audio has got to play with in-between Darren’s masterpiece and the Sprout, that would have easily fit in the Stellar box including linear power supply and balanced inputs for EUR 999 like ELAC proved is possible.
This is my last post on this subject: I won’t be partaking in any-more back and forth on the subject so please don’t ask me questions or PM me…
The SPS isn’t priced in the BHK range?! BECAUSE, if it was in the BHK price range it would be in the BHK package and cost 5 - 6K in the UK and not 2.5k. The SPS is priced marginally more than the Stellar power plant in the UK….so they are in the same ballpark … That was the gist of my post.
P S Audio price the SPS product accordingly… It isn’t expensive; see it as great value for money.!
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FYI, I have no interest in the subject kit – not a vinyl spinner these days.
I am interested in understanding other fellow hobbyists perspectives. Hence my previous response to you seeking clarification.
FWIW:
Like you (I am assuming) I am a high value guy. I have paid very dearly for kit, but the price is not a concern of mine (as long as I can afford it). What matters to me is bang for the buck, i.e., value. I pride myself on acquiring pieces that (to my ears) outperform their supposed “betters” at a significantly lower price; and I usually buy yesterday’s state of the art at used or close out prices.
Four good examples of such purchases still in my system are:
- Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers (Bought floor models and traded is some kit against price as well. They punch way above their price/weight class and are hard to beat at their currently available used prices);
- Anthem AVM 50 v2 Pre-Pro (Bought used on Audiogon. A hidden gem as a stereo preamplifier with the best, in my experience so far, on-board consumer product room correction software out there – no height CODECS but a great 2.1 and 7.1 system control center);
- SVS PB12-Ultra/2 subwoofer (Bought used on Audiogon. A bargain/giant killer at its original MSRP of approximately $2,400 and a steal when I bought it years ago); and
- PS Audio DirectStream DAC w/ Bridge II (Traded in my PefectWave MKII DAC and Bridge I Ethernet card to PS Audio to get the DAC and latest Bridge at a substantial discount. Many would say, and I would agree, that the DS DAC is a “bargain” at its current MSRP of $6,899.)
My point of boring you with this level of detail about my kit and my choices is that if you don’t think the new phono preamp is a high value piece of kit at its MSRP compared to available kit that is its equal or better at a lower price, then that is certainly a valid opinion to hold.
I may have misunderstood you, but if you have not heard the new phono preamp, then I don’t see how you can have a valid opinion in this regard whatsoever. No offense intended.
Moreover, if I understood your import markup comments correctly, it is, in my opinion, inappropriate to criticize the price point of the kit based on how much it costs after all of the markups that are outside of PS Audio’s control impact the take home price as compared to what can be had “locally” sans the markup. “Apples and Oranges” – no?
[Stepping down off of my soapbox…]
Again, if you simply don’t see the value of this new phono preamp, fair enough. That is a perfectly fine opinion to hold.
Enjoy the music!
Cheers,
Scott
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Hi @scotte1,
Your details did not bore me, I appreciate your response.
Regarding listening:
At no point have I criticized the sound quality of the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, as a matter of fact I was looking for / calling for an AB comparison between a unit with the same claim for fame, ie. Fully discrete FET amplification, linear power supply, fully balanced even balanced inputs, it costs US$ 1500 less. So pleas excuse me asking how these two compare and why on earth one unit with similarly same specs costs US$ 1500 more then the other.
On the other subject:
The reason the Stellar costs EUR 2000 more then the other unit in Europe just raises questions. Why does one US company mark up EUR 500 while the other US based company EUR 0? That sounds like 500 European reasons to ask, why. EUR 500 is a lot of Money to disappear unexplained into a complex equation of, marketing strategy, transport, customs and exchange rates without adding one bit to quality. The other US company seems to consider the extra income due to exchange rate conversion from Euro to $ sufficient to cover that equation.
Hope this explains my concerns. Thanks Rudolf
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I used to be participant on the Naim forum and these price complaint threads were common there but reversed - ‘why does Naim gear cost so much in the US - it’s double what I can get it for in the UK!!’
The answer is simple - if you like how a piece of gear sounds in your system and it’s worth it to you then buy it. If not, don’t.
To state the often overlooked but obvious points made in those old posts, there are many reasons why there is a cost differences (between countries and companies)
- distributors need to set up an independent distribution and service center in the foreign country
- distributors need to set a price where they don’t lose their shirt if the currency rate changes dramatically
- taxes are not included in MSRPs in the US - add another ~9% if you live in Boulder to the price quoted by those in Europe when comparing prices to those with VAT or deduct 20% VAT from the UK price when comparing
- you are paying for the cost of building something in the US (or UK for Naim) in affluent towns where labor rates far exceed those in China
In addition, why on earth should each component cost the same? Seen the part count in the SPP? Linn/Naim were famous for the source first philosophy and often the ‘front end’ (i.e., fully loaded LP12) cost far more than a Nait and Kans. Whether you agree with that or not - use you ears and determine where your want to allocate your funds in the audio chain.
Dan
What an odd thread. This phono pre has excellent facilities and no doubt makes a good sound. I hope it does well in the USA.
In the UK the reality is that there are several brands, but specifically Rega, who have brand recognition that PSA cannot compete against, selling turntables and phono amps with wide acceptance and awards (see Stereophile) and very high resale values. It’s not the PSA price or even quality, it’s about brand recognition.
Rega make fantastic amplifiers, but how many people in the USA have heard, let alone owned one?
I think PSA got traction in the UK because no one else sold regenerators and the PWD DAC was competitive (I bought one). But the analogue product market is swamped.
PSA should try and get it review by someone like www.the-ear.net
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