If I’m not mistaken, the DS will also show 24-bit if you use Roon’s volume-leveling function.
Update…
PS Audiophiles; drinking the entire contents of one’s cocktail cabinet certainly helps as this introduces a necessary time lag, about 5 hours, after which a full power down and restart of the DS seems to have brought back MQA at the “M” app and on the DS screen. This has happened several times now (not the drinks…the MQA/DS thing).
So for me on losing MQA, have drinks, wait some time, restart "M"app and power cycle DS and all will be well…
Dennis Kerrisk saidThis is the answer I got from Converse Digital on the “delay in streaming…” issue:
"I think most cases of “delay in streaming…” errors are caused by network problem between the renderer and the server.
One user changed the LAN cable connected to PS Audio, and then confirmed all is working well.
Thank you for passing this along, Dennis. The Bridge is my main listening source, and I regularly stream 24/192 FLAC files and single rate DSD with no problems, no dropouts, no stuttering. It seems as though mControl should be able to work in this situation. I’ll replace my AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet cable with a generic one just to see what happens. The only other possibility would be in my network switch, which is of good quality – I don’t think I’m going to spend money to try replacing that just for MQA.
It’s gotta be frustrating for you magister I’m sure, I had a no- play issue with mconnect couple yrs ago, gave up trying to fix and used only USB, but now it’s been working fine for some time, still don’t know what the prob was.
Thanks, Roger, If changing the LAN cable doesn’t accomplish anything, I’ll just give up on mControl until a new version comes out and then try again. Maybe BubbleUPnP Server will lift the restrictions on Tidal streaming in the meantime, which would (probably) give me access to MQA above 16/44.
Dennis Kerrisk saidThis is the answer I got from Converse Digital on the “delay in streaming…” issue:
"I think most cases of “delay in streaming…” errors are caused by network problem between the renderer and the server.
One user changed the LAN cable connected to PS Audio, and then confirmed all is working well.
For your information, Android OS blocks WiFi during sleep without power charging.
So sending music to a renderer with Android device will last about one hour, if the device is not charging.
And there is “Power save OFF” option in some Android devices.
A user has this issue."
Dennis
I am not sure I am buying this cop-out from Conversdigital. Are they saying they cannot replicate this problem in their facility for the purpose of debugging? And if they need access to a Bridged DAC, can PS assist with this? They are the ones who created the error message. Can they at least provide a list of any and all causes of this specific error message so we can attempt some real troubleshooting?
The ethernet cable suggestion is nonsense. If it is a factory terminated ethernet cable that has not been abused, they do not go bad. My guess is most people are using the same cable to their Bridge as they always have and never had a cable issue before. Also, I have a 50MB connection and am getting line speed to my DS. There is no “network problem” between my renderer and DS, yet I frequently get this error. I also have a Cisco Meraki enterprise firewall and access point, so not dealing with cheap consumer grade network appliances here. If there is a “network” problem, it is with the compression algorithm or server delivery of the Tidal MQA files that is creating a situation to cause this problem. I have streamed massive lossless files with no interruptions or skipping.
Someone from PS Audio has to press conversdigital for a better solution/answer to this problem, which is not isolated to one or two users.
Could it be an issue with the way the Bridge is communicating with the Mconnect app, or the connection between the Bridge and Tidal servers?
I, too, am getting the 24/44.1 and 24/48 FLAC issue. One TIDAL MQA album that used to unfold to 24/192 MQA is now playing as 24/48 FLAC (Grateful Dead, Cornell 5/8/77) and sounding worse in the process.
Power-cycling the DS and relaunching the mconnect Control app fixes the issue temporarily, but that is not a long-term elegant solution.
Any ideas as to what causes this issue, and is there a potential fix in the works? Thanks.
EDIT: After I power-cycled the DS, TIDAL MQA played properly, but it was very temporary. I was clicking around the new MQA releases using the Control app and, after clicking on my fourth or fifth MQA album after power-cycling (I believe it was Father John Misty’s new record), the dreaded 24/44.1 FLAC issue re-emerged.
Paul, Ted. Dennis,
Don’t suppose you fancy creating a PS Audio Connect App? I will let you do the maths but this would be worth at least $50/100 or so to me to tidy up this seemingly weak link in our systems?
The idea would be to provide an updatable IOS/Android app to mitigate the variable MConnect issues that seem to be holding our TIDAL/DS/Bridge II systems to ransom and bring this element under your own control.
Just thinking…
Why would they want to make that investment with Roon coming? Let the Roon software guys do what they do best and have PSA stay focused on the hardware and associated firmware.
Well…all good questions as well as advice.
The problem with Roon, in my opinion, is the cost and sound quality. Their server isn’t the best sound quality and they cost a lot. $500. Get beyond those two items and Roon’s a no brainer.
MConnect, on the other hand, works well, sounds great, and is free. That said, it is nothing compared to Roon.
So…we are heavy into our second year of development for our own version of a music control system. It is called Octave. Octave will be ‘Roon-like’ in its look and functionality, but will not carry with it the problems of Roon. It will be free and sound great.
Octave won’t hit the streets this year but we expect it to next. To use Octave will require the next generation of Bridge.
I can only imagine the challenge and difficulty of programming and truly good music control system. I am looking forward to the release of Octave.
Same here. eLyric was a great program while it lasted, except for the gapless problems. I’m expecting even greater things from Octave.
We learn from our mistakes!
Paul,
Good luck. I see companies like Auralic and Aurender struggling to keep up with Roon’s feature set and usability, and they have a massive headstart over Octave. Roon Labs is software only, so they will be able to out spend you when it comes to building software, plus it is their core competency. So that will be a tough battle to fight. While $500 seems like a lot for an app, that is a one-time life-time charge and probably one of the least expensive components of most people’s audio systems. When I compare it to JRiver or any of the software-only competitors like Pure Music who charge regularly for upgrades, I think $500 lifetime is reasonable value. I do agree when compared head to head with JRiver that Roon Server does not sound as good. So maybe the better approach would be to develop a high quality Roon Server?
Karl
Paul McGowan saidTheir server isn’t the best sound quality and they cost a lot. $500. Get beyond those two items and Roon’s a no brainer.
Yes to SQ and $$, but also not usable for people who have invested much time and effort in tagging their files (mainly classical and jazz listeners). I’d love to have access to some of the things Roon offers but won’t give up the ability to select my music in a more flexible and sophisticated way.
MConnect, on the other hand, works well, sounds great, and is free.mControl works well for many, but not for everyone, and has some long-standing bugs -- as we've discussed here.
I can see why you keep recommending mConnect/Control because they are free and work for iOS and Android; short and simple. But there are a lot of other options, some of them (IMO) much better – particularly Bubble UPnP, which is definitely the best controller I’ve used, but Android only.
How about this: when people ask what to use, say “try mConnect but if you want more choices, see [this web page].” It wouldn’t be too much work to have a list on the PSA site, with a one-sentence description of each (Bubble UPnP: well regarded; Android only; free to try, $5 for license). I’m sure folks here would give suggestions to help construct the list – you could even say that PSA does not officially endorse any but that users have found them to work.
magister said Yes to SQ and $$, but also not usable for people who have invested much time and effort in tagging their files (mainly classical and jazz listeners).+1 Roon is dreadful in its handling of classical music. I understand the appeal if one listens primarily to pop.
Paul McGowan saidWe learn from our mistakes!
Yes, as discussed in Paul’s Posts this morning. I would not characterize eLyric as a mistake by any means. Think of it as a building block for Octave. If Octave worked like eLyric with gapless and without the bugs, I’d be a happy camper. My guess is Octave will be much more than that and I’m really looking forward to it.
Here is an idea for the hardware part of Octave;
How about making a ripping feature controlled via web server as Rockna did with my Wavedream Net?
Karl Salnoske saidPaul,
Good luck. I see companies like Auralic and Aurender struggling to keep up with Roon’s feature set and usability, and they have a massive headstart over Octave. Roon Labs is software only, so they will be able to out spend you when it comes to building software, plus it is their core competency. So that will be a tough battle to fight. While $500 seems like a lot for an app, that is a one-time life-time charge and probably one of the least expensive components of most people’s audio systems. When I compare it to JRiver or any of the software-only competitors like Pure Music who charge regularly for upgrades, I think $500 lifetime is reasonable value. I do agree when compared head to head with JRiver that Roon Server does not sound as good. So maybe the better approach would be to develop a high quality Roon Server?
Karl
A fine suggestion, Karl, and we’ve of course given it much thought. But, consider. As a manufacturer, I can’t afford to pay $500 for something without upping it by a factor of four or five times to make margin, like we do parts. Second, Roon’s a small company that may or may not be around over time. If I built a box that depended on their software and then they got bored, bellied up, whatever, I would then be faced with having sold my customers a brick. And lastly, there’s the issue of sound quality. For whatever reason, Roon’s not quite yet got it figured out. Perhaps they will over time.
You refer to Auralic and others. Their software’s dreadful, IMHO. I suspect they’re more hardware engineers than software.
What we have figured out is the user interface/experience is the single most important aspect of a server. Get that right and the rest can fall in line.
That’s why we have to take the course we’re taking. And remember, while it might seem these guys have a leg up on us, we were actually one of the first to build a UI - way before they were even a company.
Paul McGowan saidA fine suggestion, Karl, and we’ve of course given it much thought. But, consider. As a manufacturer, I can’t afford to pay $500 for something without upping it by a factor of four or five times to make margin, like we do parts. Second, Roon’s a small company that may or may not be around over time. If I built a box that depended on their software and then they got bored, bellied up, whatever, I would then be faced with having sold my customers a brick. And lastly, there’s the issue of sound quality. For whatever reason, Roon’s not quite yet got it figured out. Perhaps they will over time.
You refer to Auralic and others. Their software’s dreadful, IMHO. I suspect they’re more hardware engineers than software.
What we have figured out is the user interface/experience is the single most important aspect of a server. Get that right and the rest can fall in line.
That’s why we have to take the course we’re taking. And remember, while it might seem these guys have a leg up on us, we were actually one of the first to build a UI - way before they were even a company.
So on the topic of sound quality of Roon, I would have completely agreed with you until very recently. Not sure exactly what version made the improvement in sound quality but Roon has been vastly improved. Especially ROCK. It is now my preference for streaming, sounding better than dlna, hq player or Jplay. I’m not a huge classical collector, so I suppose I dont really see an issue with how Roon catalogs music. Different steokes for different folks I suppose, because I find it far superior to any dlna based playback. One thing that plays in roons favor is the eccosystem of end points (either diy or off the shelf). So for me roon serves my entire house of at least 5 end points including the bridge 2. If there is a way to make the upcoming server compatable with roon end points… then i think youd have something, but for me Dlna is out-dated and the user experience sucks. Again, just my 2 cents.