MQA for Bridge using Roon

Audio Components DACs
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Paul McGowan said

Just got an email from Scott Cho of Converse that work begins in two weeks on adding the new RAAT to the Bridge II. Guessing that means within a month we should be testing it.

Thanks Paul,

I’ve been away on holiday for a couple weeks and not really following the forums (decided to take a break from the audiophile nervosa as well as work stress ) so only seeing this now.

Anyway I share the disappointment of other posters that we are probably looking at another month or two but at least we now have a time frame. A couple more months isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things and having something new to look forward to is always good.

Thanks for the update and for chasing them on this.

Regards,

Alan

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Do you know this for a fact or is this something you are guessing or making up? If this is not something you know then you shouldn’t be putting it out there as a fact.

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jaiello said

Do you know this for a fact or is this something you are guessing or making up? If this is not something you know then you shouldn’t be putting it out there as a fact.

I do know that the Bridge III will be in-house by PSA and won't be (at this stage) a collab with ConversDigital - that's already out there. However the rest is possibilities for any delays, I did make that clear and made it clear it wasn't a fact.

But noted, I will ask for the post to be removed in case someone interprets it the wrong way. Best to err on the side of caution.

In the mean time, while we all patiently wait for DS/Roon/MQA integration to arrive, here is a post today by Charles Hansen regarding MQA. Just one data point to consider but an interesting one. I’m mostly interested in the technical points in there, but there’s a lot of side stuff that you need to get through:

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In my opinion I think it is unfair to crave something that is given away for free or argue if there exist some schedule slippage for that matter.

If one pay for something and do not get it, now that’s another story.

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It’s not given away free. It is part of the product. From the PSA web site:

  • Fully upgradable through software releases
That makes software releases part of the product so buying this DAC one can expect software releases that add features from time to time. This argument that it's free so we can all just sit by happily while we twiddle our thumbs is just wrong. In my way of thinking I paid for this. I am not saying that we shouldn't have to wait. What some people are missing here was the announcement this week that work had yet to begin is what heated up the discussion. I am betting that many people here thought that work was near completion.

I am willing to wait. I just can’t sit by when I read posts from people saying it’s free. It’s not. I am going to unsubscribe from this post now. I can’t stand reading all the BS.

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Your point is completely valid and I think everyone understands it. Others’ points are just as valid and are not “BS.” They are just different.

Let’s all hope Paul’s guestimate PS Audio will be testing the new software in about a month is correct.

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Paul McGowan said

I haven’t heard anything back. I will ping them again.

I've no idea what role Converse Digital plays in the hold up.

Roon still doesn’t offer MQA capability for any of its users, who are frustrated too. The following quote from the Roon COO (Roon Community) would indicate that any “timeline” for adding MQA capability to Roon is subject to current negotiations between Roon and MQA, presumably over fees charged by MQA to Roon, per Roon subscriber:

Link to thread on Roon community

"dannyDanny DulaiRoon Labs: COO

May 29
@miguelito Asking “when” is a good reason for the moderators shutting down this topic, but your second question “what is the hold up?” is much more reasonable and deserves an answer.

Unfortunately, there are some sensitivities here that are both protected by NDA, and an active business discussion in progress, which prevent us from sharing further details.

Although we often share details about what is going on, please respect the fact that this is not one of those times.

You are free to speculate as you want, but you aren’t getting any more information from anyone here who actually knows anything.

I’ll reopen the thread here, but everyone, please try to be civil."

Though the COO’s comments are from May, the thread is current as of yesterday, with no indication of a Roon/MQA agreement yet.

I just have to say that I very much appreciate Paul McGowan’s patience, forthright communication, and businesslike manner, especially when compared to Roon’s Mr. Dulai, who threatens to shut down topics if customers ask when the service will be available.

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More “analysis” from the Roon MQA thread…

"James_I James Interlandi

I’m an IP/media lawyer, and I’m sure these licensing discussions are very challenging for both sides.

If I were Meridian/MQA right now, at this early stage of MQA adoption, I would want to preserve end-to-end control over the rendering process and there is no way I’d let any decoding process fail to light up those DAC lights. You’re blowing your whole DAC licensing model right there if you let that happen. And I doubt Meridian/MQA would ever give out to a software developer the ability to re-load encrypted flags after any sort of signal processing.

Roon has already developed itself past some of these limitations. DSP is a great example: it appears there has been huge adoption within the Roon user community. DSP will go off when an MQA track comes on, I’m sure, and Roon may be concerned about that. I’ll bet that Meridian is even concerned about MQA rendering into HQPlayer. Crossfade might even violate the MQA license terms, who knows?

I never really thought about it before, but there must be some significant tension between Roon’s desire to include MQA decoded files with the same capabilities as all other tracks and Meridian’s regulated model for MQA usage. Some of these issues may abate as MQA matures or when MQA starts to lose revenue because they don’t allow it.

I don’t envy Roon’s counsel this task."

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bongo said I've no idea what role Converse Digital plays in the hold up.
They are a third-party supplier to PS Audio who is waiting for them to incorporate the necessary code into the Bridge. That is, nothing happens until Converse Digital does its work.
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Also the licensing for Roon should not affect the situation with PS Audio. With the Bridge being MQA certified it will do the unfolding. For example my Lumin A1 streamer plays MQA fine using its own app or Roon. Not sure of the technical reasons why the bridge does not see and decode MQA via Roon but that is what Converse are working on and it will be independent of Roon’s MQA offering.

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Yes, but Roon cannot add it without the license in place regardless of the end point.

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Not to start a whole thing, Just curious if the Converse Digital guys were able to get their updates in?

{EDIT} - I crossed that out, as people have genuinely good opinions and arguments, and my comment made it seem like that didn’t matter.

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I have to admit that I am confused about this.

Is the only thing that Bridge II users who want to listen to MQA via Roon are waiting for is some action from Converse Digital, or are we also waiting for an update from Roon as well?

David

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I believe both - but I have an email into Converse to confirm.

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Per Roon Labs, they’ve delivered everything needed. In fact, that was in July I believe.

If someone at Converse Digital need the info that other vendors have already used to successfully play pass-thru MQA music from Roon, they should contact Brian at Roon Labs.

I don’t believe Roon is holding anything up here.

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It’s absolutely surreal that I am holding off on a $40k+ purchase for this - on one hand I know it’s going to get done, but on the other hand I’d like to see it before I pull the trigger.

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Paul McGowan said

MQA streaming is working just fine if you have a Bridge II.


Hi Paul, I wish that were my experience. I and others have experienced various glitches with MQA playback on TIDAL HiFi including skipped tracks, buffering interruptions and flat-out stoppages in play. I used to think it was the fault of the mControl app, but a friend who uses the TIDAL PC desktop app has the same problem, and there have been numerous reports on the audio boards of similar glitches with TIDAL MQA. For example, see this August 28, 2017 post on Computer Audiophile and several that follow it:

I have been dealing with [TIDAL] since Mid-June about the stuttering and stopping issues that involves three different streamer brands and tests with four different modem/gateways. Other than blaming the IP, streamers, routers their only suggestion to help is to change the DNS settings to Google Public which makes no difference. They plain and simple have bandwith issues in certain areas of the country that are getting progressively worse as more people attempt to use MQA. This has been confirmed to me by software people with two of the streamer companies who have been fielding complaints from customers who have been told their problems are the result of the streamer software by Tidal. On the other hand Quboz, which has no equipment in the country, streams flawlessly as does Spotify. My issues persist whether using wireless, 125 mbps and 10ms, or wired connections. Whether these problems are the result of their teaming up with Sprint or just the failure to keep up is unknown. All I know is that my service was flawless for almost a year and a half and is now basically useless for either standard or MQA files.

Personally, I would not base any audio hardware purchasing decisions on a plan to stream TIDAL MQA.

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I agree. Streaming is still in its infancy. I will say that Converse has never said they’d do something without coming through for us. So if you’re waiting to be sure they do, I can almost guarantee you they will. Nothing in life is certain other than…but it’ll happen.

That said, streaming will always be at the mercy of the bandwidth and server gods. As infrastructure grows this worry will become a thing of the past, but for now, it’s going to be a little glitchy.

On the other hand, think about what we’re not entirely happy about. Something that even a few years ago would have been the stuff of science fiction. Absurd. That from the comfort of our homes and at the push of a button, we can watch any movie we want or listen to any music we wish. And there are millions of us. It is truly remarkable what has happened and is happening.

That it doesn’t happen yet perfectly…just give it a little time.

I for one am still stunned that it happens at all.

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I have been working with Tidal for the last month or more. Not once have they blamed my PC or router. I have been supplying logs, and route tracing. They drop boxed me one update, didn’t do it. The tech has been a pleasure to work with. I think it was Wednesday night an update came through.

For the first time in months, I can go from MQA to 16/44 and back without it hanging up. I have had a few network lost messages, but I saw the Spectrum truck next door, and there is what looks like a couple of hundred feet of cable, coiled up, hanging on my pole. I think they may be updating the cabling. While my cable to the house is about 5 years old, Time Warner’s predecessors installed cable around the city about 45 years ago. I remember getting cable TV about two miles west of me when I was around 20 years old. Streaming requires perfect service, as does cable TV I suppose, but I got it originally just for internet. Since Spectrum took over my minimum of 20 mbps has gone up to 60mbps, but last time I ran a speed test connected with Ethernet from the router, I was getting 75mbps.

I think Tidal has problems on both ends, the player decoding MQA was not considered when they built their network and players. I have been running Tidal since 2am, it is now 12:40pm and not one problem.

Son of bitch, I jinxed myself, just had two short dropouts. But it is recovering on it’s own. Progress. I wouldn’t worry about Tidal if you have other sources, any DAC you buy will have problems if it is on Tidal’s side.

I have a great DAC, got it from a friend who replaced it with an AR CD9 and a Directsream in his second system. And the Lindemann listed for twice the price of the Directsream. Talk about problems, it has a transport that works about 50% of the time. And that was after Lindemann replaced everything. I was using a Benchmark Dac2 HGC that is a high value DAC, but the Lindemann took it to the next level, but I would buy a Directstream today, if I had the money.

Edit: Well, I spoke too soon, the queue is still adding new albums right after the track that is playing, rather than on the bottom, below the last track already in the queue. But the rest is working a whole lot better.

Does anyone know if there are any settings I can access to make adjustments to my router, and how to get there? I remember setting it up, but that was with some guidance from Time Warner. I’d like to take a look around.

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Dschamis said: “It’s absolutely surreal that I am holding off on a $40k+ purchase for this –”

I have to agree with you there, but maybe not for the same reasons as you. I’m not intending offense, I’m truly curious, and I guess I still don’t get your thinking (as I mentioned earlier). This is an honest question - why would you hinge such a large purchase on the functionality of a new codec - or even any given source component, etc.? Are you so fully sold on the sound, future and viability of MQA that you simply will not purchase anything that doesn’t currently flawlessly support it? What if it fails in the marketplace? Will that then mean you made a stupid purchase - that is, you’re buying this gear purely because it supports Roon and MQA?

You mention being a Roon fan (as am I). The additions you are contemplating to your system will make Plain 'Ole Roon - as well as Everything Else you play through it SO MUCH better than what you currently have in your system description (totally IMHO based on my tastes and experience - and without knowing your personal sonic tastes), I think you will realize MQA is just another codec.

I have to add that I still feel, as I have since his early raves, that RH either is party to information he’s not sharing, or I would like a prescription for whatever he’s on:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/let-the-revolution-begin/