Personally I’d be opt to buy the speakers first. I am extremely pleased with the DS Dac still.
I need to invest in hi end speakers before a new dac. But it will interesting to see what comes out.
@tedsmith can all of your future DAC hardware please include a high current headphone output … for headphone users.
Sure we can add a separate headphone amp but this is the shortest path / best coupling to your FPGA .
I’ll think about how to do it well without compromising the rest of the DAC, perhaps an addon option.
That’s not a cheap feature - right now the output of the DS is passive and that’s important for a number of reasons. A headphone output would mean a parallel active output: a new power supply (with it’s own AC transformer or at least a new transformer winding) for the higher voltage needed, perhaps an active low pass filter, multiple active output drivers… Doing it dual mono like the rest of the system is that much more costly. Someone is sure to ask for a separate analog volume control for that output as well or probably request a tube based output 
All perfectly doable if you ignore the change in the price of the DAC, tho it’s not trivial to make sure it doesn’t affect output quality for the DAC as a whole even if it’s not used.
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Hehe don’t worry about that. Those people can add a separate headphone amp 
No problem. Thinking about it is all I can ask.
One of the reasons I decided to go with the DS senior was because it was a “dedicated” DAC. I knew all the cost was going into making the DAC great. I had a Brooklyn and never used the headphone amp - phono preamp. Besides the fact that that I got tired (literally) of the sound I wanted a “dedicated” - no compromise DAC. Could care less about all the extras. If that what someone’s looking for that’s fine and they have their place but I think the DS and above should be about the DAC. DAC’s with headphone outputs are a dime a dozen…
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Great DACs? With great headphone outputs? It’s not a huge list. Chord yes, Playback Designs yes. A few other great ones.
Hope to see a Ted DAC on the short list one day.
If you must than if possible make one without a headphone option. I think a good number of people could care less about this option. All I care about with headphones is portability. I know there are some great headphones out there but I’ve yet to hear anything that comes close to good 2 channel speaker experience. Even if it did I’d much rather have a dedicated high end headphone amp if I did care. Would think that would still beat anything built into a DAC – not taking into account the compromises and cost associated with adding the option many don’t want to begin with.
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Would it be easier/cheaper to include a 2nd set of outputs that are independent of each other (have hookups on both won;t damage sound? Or maybe a switch to direct the signal to one set of outputs or the other?
I think adding a separate, outboard headphone amp is a cool feature… Hard to implement on a system that doen’t have one or a way to tap out to one.
Not all good headphone amps have to be expensive… I have a little Grado that is really nice… simple device… can;t use it on my current system because no RCAs to hook it to.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
No.
Some people simply plug their headphones into a DS and are happy. But having a general purpose buffered headphone output is as I described it above.
If you are talking about two outputs like the current one: much of the analog card is the digital switches, their power supplies, the passive output filtering and the output transformers. Duplicating all of that for another output wouldn’t fit in the current chassis, would need more than the current power supply and would be a big cost hit. Having two passive output filters driven by the same digital switches is much more doable, but still there’s not a lot of room for more transformers, etc., 20db attenuator relays, mute relays…
To be fair I’m not a headphone guy but is there really a market for a “high(er) end” non portable DAC with a headphone (amp) output? How about a BHK headphone amp for those in need instead? Wouldn’t that be better anyway?
Put the headphone jack in the pre-amp where it belongs, and not in the DAC.
Exactly. In the DirectStream DAC just like Chord (and not just their portables…)
And yes, I know you said pre-amp
I think it’s hard to do it right for everyone.
I’m one who i.e. doesn’t want to pay for a headphone amp integrated in the DAC or Preamp (although I can understand the need or those who use headphones often), but on the other hand I’d be pleased with an integrated phono amp in the pre etc. (ok, it’s difficult because it would need a different chassis or outboad power supply).
I wonder if PSA sometime thought about a modular concept with choices to the customer. Not many do that and I guess for good reason…but if done, it’s a good thing.
I can’t think of a high-end DAC that has a headphone amp. dCS Vivaldi 2. Esoteric D02X. Soulution 760. Berkley Alpha Reference 2. CH Precision C1. etc etc. There is a reason for that. Probably the same reasons as explained by Ted, and more. It needs a whole lot of hardware to do properly, it would be expensive, and it just won’t fit in the chassis. And it would compromise what you’re trying to achieve with a reference DAC.
If they could build it for $20k, it would be competing against other products that cost twice as much, or more. Which is not much different to the equation with their traditional products which are performance competitive against other things that are much more expensive.
I don;t wholly agree with that summation (partly yes, but no as a blanket statement)… Benchmark DACs have a jack… OK, so maybe not high-end by your definition, but still a product out of reach for the overwhelming majority of most music loving humans.
Product designers and the companies that invest in making them make hardcore financial and marketing decisions. If they don’t have to do something, they don’t do it given the market they are targeting and price point they design to. Even those designers driven to make the best sounding product possible still have to live in the real world of costs, markets, and making money. “Features” are, by definition, marketing decisions. XLR vs RCA is just one of them.
I find it really interesting that the markets for luxury good, such as high-end cars, share some similar beliefs: that the companies that make them did everything for the purity of whatever design objective they hold as pure… not really so. Reality bites.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
The example given to support your opposite view just doesn’t support that view. It’s a $3k DAC!! Find me a DAC over $20k that has a headphone jack. There might be one, I just can’t think of one…
I guess a Chord Dave isn’t considered high end these days. It’s a tough field out there
And have you seen the size of and heard Chord Dave…
I’m a Ted Smith fan. Just wishing out loud.
No. DACs are not on my radar, I’m happy with what I have. But, if Ted Smith + PS Audio were to build the best DAC they knew how, that would get my attention.
I too am happy with the DS. I just can’t imagine how much better a $20,000.00 dac could be over the $6,000.00 DS. The law of diminishing returns would kick in big time. That small percentage of musical gain will cost,but if you can afford it…
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