The rooms where the mixing consoles and sound engineer and thus the monitors are located typically are not the large part of the studio. Anyway, a strength off those D&D 8c speakers is advertised as being equally suitable for large and small rooms.
The speaker companies that dominate market share do so because they have proprietary technology and design experience going back decades, and were usually started by teams with extensive R&D experience. I use Harbeth, started in a garage by Dudley Harwood, but he had worked at BBC Research for 30 years and been in charge for over a decade, with a big team and budget to match. They have used young materials scientists to formulate new driver materials, but the product is the result of 60 years of continuous design.
Paul is doing much the same, extending the heritage of AN. Infinity was never distributed in the UK and a Genesis only for a couple of years and it is not a design concept seen here. It seems a perfectly sensible idea.
Contrast electronics, the guy who set up Auralic was a graduate and has built up a great global product line in little more than 10 years.
While I prefer analog and have a lot of reservations against DSP I am afraid that the audiophile high end stereo industry better get used to DSP’s. Even PS Audio utilizes a Digital DSP to handle the pressures DSD DAC generated analog Bass signal to limit bass speaker imperfections and generate a more precise dynamic bass.
Here are the advantages:
- Cost: those processor boards are way cheaper than passive analog filter components for generating 2, 3 or even 4 way filters
- Accuracy: No production process of analog components can match the repeatability of digital audio circuitry.
- Availability: The leading German high end audio DIY module manufacturer “Thel” announced to stop manufacturing their high end analog power amp stages due to the fact that electronics component manufacturers stop serving small companies leaning on 30 years or older technology.
- Convenience: Analog filters, even low power active ones become considerably complex, for achieving time delays and phase shifts to align timing between drivers. Getting a straight or desired amplitude (volume) response curve is one thing but performing phase shifts or time delays is like opening Pandora’s box when done analog. Digitally it certainly is not less complex, but once figured out it is stored and implemented with a comprehensive user interface into those DSP modules. It is hard to mechanically align drivers without generating all kinds of audible reflections that interfere with the original sound the speaker should generate. I watched a tutorial from Mr. Linkwitz where he said that alignment should happen electronically. Important: No alignment between drivers no sound stage!
- Environment: DSP driven class D amplifiers are way more efficient, perhaps less of an issue in the US (yet) but in Europe where energy is a premium, households are fighting for every watt not to be waisted, expensive sometimes mandatory house insulation projects, rating systems of real estate based on energy efficiency, Tungsten bulbs and even fluorescent bulbs are replaced by 3 to max 7 Watt LED light sources. In this environment, analog, class A or A/B amplifiers, whether tube or solid state are now starting to contribute more significantly to the energy consumption. Why we can still get dirt cheap flight tickets to pollute this world is a completely different discussion that @Elk certainly wants out of this forum. But energy efficiency certainly must be considered, especially when investing in expensive high end audio equipment that should last for a longer period into our children’s future.
- Space: Our planet becomes more and more crowded real estate for large amps and extra SubWoofers are certainly a premium.
- Looks: our budgets are typically depending on multiple incomes and many of us share our homes with spouses, who mostly tolerate but do not share our audiophile passion. Thus they only tolerate so many dust catching boxes with messy cable arrangements of certain sizes. Their preference is a all in one box, preferably small and wireless. They can not understand why one would hang one to large, energy consuming, space cluttering equipment for a quantum leap sound improvement over the sleek design modern audio equipment.
Having said that I prefer a healthy balance, and DSD is for me the convincing music distribution format that PCM based DSP’s can not natively process and thus will very likely change the DSD signal audio quality properties. Perhaps there might be solutions for that in the future.
I just watched a review of the ELAC ARB-51. It’s a smallish standpoint 3-way active with coaxial mid and tweeter, analogue crossover, and Darko reviewed it with the onboard Airplay/Bluetooth/Roon Ready wireless streaming card, or analogue wired from a Mytek Bridge and then a PS Audio DSD DAC, with performance increasing each time. It’s an Andrew Jones design. What strikes me is how digital, wireless and decent Class D amplification offers such a range of speaker options to today’s consumer, allowing such a flexible product that can be used out of the box and/or improved with an external streamer/DAC.
What is amazing to me is that you can get 1000 watts (500b, 250m, 250h) of power inside the 8c speaker cabinet. I think the Kii may have 6x 250 watt amps in each cabinet.
I have been in many studios. Yes, the performance/recording space is bigger than the monitoring/playback space. But in professional studio’s monitoring is performed in a space typically bigger than the average audiophile’s listening space. Thus speakers that work well in a studio could easily overwhelm a small room.
The only way to know how the speakers work in your space is to try them.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system
Great review and measurements.
I had a chance to compare my Yamaha MSP 5 active monitors to the ELAC ARB51’s they sound very good noticeable better than my Yamaha’s. But I was at the dealer with another mission, make the Yami’s sound better with the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, and the SGCD did and still does a very good job at it. I sometimes contemplate the ARF51 (“…F” for floorstanding) but they are ported, not designed for close to the wall positioning and certainly need a sub. But if they even sound better than the ARB51 I heard I trust ELAC has put a top product to the market. I always have been interested in active speakers and there seems so much choice these days.
My living room is not that small either, it certainly matches the sound engineer rooms I have been to. Obviously our living room for 5 grown up’s (well maybe only 4) and friend and a 100 lb Bernese Mountain dog certainly has a different interior and far less space to play with.
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It’s not that difficult to get the amps in, what gets me is how they can get those ELAC actives with internal streaming and DACs on the shelf for $2,000.
Excellent observations and commentary yet again Rudolf. I’ve been huge fan of DSD for many years.
Sigh. But I just bought a new pair of speakers that cost more than twice as much as this weeks new thing. (8c’s) They are very interesting to me. Maybe I could build a fourth system down here. I’d need to add a room.
They’ve got my interest peaked for sure as I was already thinking about eliminating a lot of the separates and moving to a top flight integrated amp but this takes it even further as all you need is a streamer with AES output like the Lumin U series or the Auralic Aries G series and a pair of AES/EBU cables. But like you I already have more speakers than I need but that could change if need be. The review at HiFi Knights goes into even more detail about different types of setups and somewhat of a comparison to his Boenicke’s.
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I just bought a two month old used pair of D&Ds for under $10k. It seemed like a bargain if they are as good as advertised. I should get them in a week or so.
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Not a big deal but to put the record straightl: “Holland” is only two provinces of the country called The Netherlands. Dutch & Dutch is dutch. Grimm is dutch, from Eindhoven as Philips was. Kii is not dutch, it’s German as far as I know.
@tmurray1 You are lucky. I looked for months trying to find a used set for sale. There were a couple sets in the EU but nothing in the US. I am thoroughly enjoying them and I think you will too. I used Iconoclast BAV XLR’s to make the 32’ run between components and the D&D’s
My apologies, I should know better, my wife is from Flanders.
It does get a bit confusing. Bruno Putzeys is actually Belgian, was at Phillips in NL, lots of the Kii team were at Grimm in NL and appear to be Dutch, but for some reason Kii is in Germany. Grimm and Kii are only 100 miles apart, as can happen around there you take a wrong turn and can find yourself in another country. My favourite is Basel Airport, it has exits to three different countries.
Philips R&D HQ for A/V was actually in Leuven, (Flanders) Belgium. Grimm is Dutch and located in Eindhoven (where the Philips Knowledge Campus is located), province of North Brabant, The Netherlands, Kii is a Dutch and German cooperation, HQ located in Bergisch Gladbach, Germany.
Then there is Hypex and Mola Mola high end audio. Both located in Groningen, province of Groningen, The Netherlands.
These are all companies where Bruno Putzeys, was or is heavily involved in, and I see that some of his colleague experts also share their wisdom and service in multiple of those companies, which makes them strong. It are most of all Philips breeds, from the time Philips sales wanted to follow B&O footsteps and offer optically as well as audible very attractive systems that looked sleek, sounded great and cost less. The “cost less part” and shareholder’s ever lasting greed for more profit drove that Industry into a direction of extremely cheap plastic fantastic low cost (+ unfortunately low quality products) so much plastic that at the end you could not distinguish it anymore from all the other plastic crap that flooded our market and gave innovative high quality manufacturers like of Braun, Dual, Grundig, UHER and others who had already suffered from competing with Japanese competition, the fatal blow to the neck.
So at the end Philips’s spread sheet managers succeeded so well in their goal to beat competition that their own high quality A/V section fell victim to the same fate.
However, till date all these Dutch, or semi Dutch companies do profit from the knowledge base that Philips created in this beautiful region of Europe.
Dutch & Dutch are located in Rotterdam, to Stevens defence located in the province of South Holland, The Netherlands. But probably were taught electronics from Professors that somehow have roots within Philips as well. At least I did when I studied at the poly technical of Dordrecht (now Rotterdam & Omstreken).
Bergisch Gladbach in Germany is seemingly becoming an audio manufacturing center as Thorens moved there recently, and Transrotor and Lehmann Audio were founded there. I think Lehmann Audio relocated to Cologne.
Pink Faun is located in Rhenen, the Province of Utrecht and there are other Dutch companies with experts out there.
I know that Great Britain / UK have a very high quality and experienced A/V industry. I leave it to our British audiophiles like Steven to provide a bit of background.
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Thank you for the complete picture. Ik had het niet beter kunnen verwoorden. The sad demise of Philps A/V was mainly caused by what you see now everywhere, e.g. at Apple: not putting customers and innovation first, but the interests of the shareholders.
Fortunately PS Audio is on a different path. Looking forward to the new AN3 and other speakers in the pipe-line (to get back to the original subject)!
Yes I got lucky. I feel I can divulge my source now that I’ve found them. It was on Reverb. It appears hifishark does not pull listings from there. I plan to try the AES/EBU output from my Matrix into them to start. I am looking at the BAVs and the Belden 1800s from Bluejeans cable.
-Terry