P5 fan starts to produce noise


#1

I bought a new P5 a month ago in Australia. The plastic bag covering P5 is punctured at one of the 4 anti-vibration rubber pads and some small holes in another place.

Some small dirt inside. I have asked and have been told dirt might come in during shipping and the rubber pad can cause the hole on the plastic bag while shipping.

And now, one of the 2 fans started to make a constant noise when it runs (like noise by a fan of an old desktop PC or when it touches a wire when running) which is very annoying. The fans don’t run often and turned on and off by P5 automatically but when turned on, there is a click noise (quite loud) as well (I guess from the electric relay and can be normal). I looked inside and didn’t see any wire touches the fan though. The noise is not audible when the music is on but can be heard between songs.

Can you please advice how to stop the noise? I have tried to relocate p5 a couple of times to different surfaces but cannot get rid of the noise. Thank you.


#2

Sounds like we may need to replace one of the fans for you. Can you contact Mike at Magenta and he can get some help to you?


#3

Thank you, Paul. I’ll monitor further for another week and will contact Mike.


#4

Paul, I have posted this re. the noise from a fan and click of replay. I have also posted one regarding the hum from transformer.

Thanks for your answers. I have contacted Mike and my P5 is now on the way to Mike for warranty (I bought it for a month now). Appreciate prompt action.

We are using all these things in Hifi environment where we spend efforts and money to have better sounds with less noise from audio, so we don’t want the devices which help less noise in music bring noise to the environment where we listen to music.

I have some constructive feedbacks which I think can be of help for a better releases of P5 in future. Understanding most only want to hear good news and praises, showing good and hiding the shortcomings, if you are not one of them and really open to listen, please give me your email address and I send an email to you. What I am going to tell is the truths from my perspective as a user, no more, no less. Thank you. I am a senior QA engineer and used to work for Nortel Networks and Avaya to test their networking devices so I understand what is good and what is excellence; what are strong points and what need to be improved of an electronic product by using it.


#5

paul @psaudio.com and I would be happy to hear your comments.


#6

@tamnguyenbbt why don’t you share your comments in open forum, others here are likely interested in what you have to say.


#7

@brodricj, now I would. But now I have to solve my problem first.

@Paul McGowan, your importer in Australia drives my crazy. I was about to write an email to you and received his email half an hour ago. He wrote to me and told me things like:

"We have been running your P5 in our office today and the fan noise level is perfectly normal for a P5. Indeed the fan only comes on at start up, so I’m not sure what the issue is here.

There is also no detectable transformer hum with this unit. If you are hearing hum in your location it may be a result of DC on your power line, or the fact that you were outputting at 225v.

The unit is operating perfectly to specification.

We do not offer a back to base warranty, so we request that our shipping charges are reimbursed.

I will prepare an invoice in the morning"

1/ I have written back to him. He does not know that the fans are only kicked in to run when heat is up at certain level and off again when heat is down. If load is too low then chances for fans run again soon is low. Give the box enough load and wait a bit and he can see the fans run. Is he qualified to open the box and tested before shipping the “new” device to me? Is he qualified to test and run warranty? How could you let an distributor like that to serve the customers here? The fact he has the right to test new devices and package before shipping out to customers are bad thing. He has all types of ex-demo, open-boxed which he offers to sell to consumers. He is the only importer here and has his own hifi shop to sell those PSAudio things. How can I trust him after all this? Do you control him well for the sake of consumers? Do you care about PSAudio image? Before I bought mine, I thought PSAudio did the testing/product verification/quality assurance/quality control. I found out everything is done with him when I exchanged emails with one of your staff at PSAudio after I found my box was with damaged plastic bag and tiny wood dust inside the plastic bag when I unboxed it upon delivery. Now my P5 is just about one month old. Why does not he run the test more carefully and replace the Indonesian fans inside (I can look inside thru the heat sink opening). I would do that myself with a better fan (this fan costs nothing) if the device is no longer in warranty.

2/ Nothing wrong with outputting 225V. Does specs state I cannot set 225V?

3/ Why nobody/manual told me that P5 cannot tolerate possible residue DC in power grid or by using inverter aircon/heater (which could cause DC and transformer starts to hum. If I knew that, would I have bought the P5 to restrict myself to use P5 in specific conditions only? Does that make any sense? My Consonance Cyber 845 monoblock poweramps from China with 2 big transformers and under my house, they never produce any hum. P5 transformer is bad. Should not blame power grid. Now I listen to music and cannot turn heater/aircon on. I have told him that hum came when my centralized heater was on and when no heater, chances to hear hum was low, unable to reproduce.

4/ And he jumped to conclusion that I claimed false warranty and he issues an invoice for shipping charges for the “false” warranty. He cares about his money, not customer’s satisfaction.

Bottom line, what a service. Please kindly get things right. Thanks. I spent decent money to buy stuff and has the right to make sure my stuff to work OK for me. I don’t cry for moon and should not be treated like that.

I have asked him not tamper the box. Sending back to me and I get a technician to run the test and report for me. If the technician can find out what I have found (sure he can), I’ll lodge a complain to Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. Other consumers should be protected as well.

I have also sent him and CCed you all the evidence I recorded before asking for warranty (photos of bad packaging and voice recordings of the fan noise, transformer hum).


#8

I am sorry you’re having an issue with the P5 but from what I can see, it does look like the unit’s operating ok. Mike at Magenta is one of the very best distributors we have and has always been fair and honest.

There are any number of things that could cause what you’re seeing and I am trying to make heads or tails of all this. The fans on the P5 are there for a reason. It’s rare they come on loud enough to bother anyone, but in fact, they can and do come on to cool the unit if the load’s too much or the ambient temperature in the room is high, etc. From Mike’s technician’s report it looks like the P5 is running exactly as it should.

The hum in the transformer does sound like DC to me as well. If it’s not present until the heater or air conditioner kicks on as I am gathering from your note, that would be clear indication the line is changing and becoming unbalanced - which can cause DC on the line and subsequent transformer hum in the P5. The P5 will block any DC to the equipment itself, but its internal transformer can mechanically vibrate if it gets DC on it. That another piece of gear doesn’t may be because it’s on a different circuit or running a very different load or any number of extenuating circumstances I am not privy to.

As for the 225 volts, I am unclear what the issue is. There is a limit to how much you can adjust the input vs. the output voltage on the device. It is an instrument, after all, and while it can do what you ask of it, it isn’t always possible to not have other consequences in making those choices. Can you try Mike’s advice and adjust it back up to 230 to see if perhaps that helps the issue you’re seeing?

We want nothing more than to have you happy, but making threats like this isn’t perhaps the best way to go. I am sure Mike will be happy to work with you.


#9

I think it’s good that the distributor opens product before sending it out to dealers and customers. They can check for any shipping damage, and update any software. Regarding their tech assessment, they can only test it “as received” so if it turns out your local power supply is causing the behavior then it’s no surprise they can’t replicate the fault. I personally know the tech they use for these repairs and if he says it’s within spec I’d bet my house on it. Regarding the “no fault found” return shipping charge, that is just common business practice. When you get the P5 back, if it is still faulting in your installation make a video of the problem to further assist with diagnostics. The P5 is a nice piece. Hang-in there and when you get it back update your findings.


#10

@brodricj, it is better if Paul can give you all the truths after we have worked out the outcome. I don’t need to provide here. “No fault found” is a common business practice, I agree. What I can tell you is the fans have problem and the distributor didn’t really test it and tried to charge me right away. I was unhappy about it. But all sorted out now and I am happy again. Thanks, Paul for the involvement. I still think very positive about PSAudio products and continue to use and buy from PSAudio in future. PSAudio listen eventually.

What you and Paul advised above I have done all, setting to 240V, recordings, ect. before lodging warranty. They have enough supports and information (how to replicate) from me. I need supports and I have to support them best as well.

Just one thing, within the chain, never underestimate consumers and only need to tell consumers the truth than reacting and giving bunch of theories/fault information which don’t exist. brodricj, as a community leader, you should protect this, verifying what are marketing info and what are true technical info for the sake of community you are leading. Not all users are sheep not verifying what have been told. I was asking for a warranty in a soft way first on a simple matter (fan noise) but solution was not provided from beginning, instead a war. Lesson learnt.

Maybe the distributor thought I thought that my P5 was not a new one and I was cunning, trying to make a fuss about it to get a new one. If that is a case, should dig further before jumping into conclusion then.

In the end, P5 is very good product. My issue with my P5 is a particular case only.


#11
tamnguyenbbt said . . . But all sorted out now and I am happy again.
Excellent. So what was the problem and how was it resolved?

#12

Just a fan noise. I lodged warranty for the fan noise. I was asking about the hum but I didn’t lodge the official warranty for the hum. Simple as it.

I was offered a new one (very good) but I asked for upgrading to P10 and was accepted. This is good as well. So I am going to own the P10.


#13
tamnguyenbbt said .... So I am going to own the P10.
Happy days, I can guarantee that fan noise will not be a problem with the P10. I'd put my house on that as well...giggle_gif

#14
tamnguyenbbt said Just a fan noise. . . .
A great deal of drama in this thread under these circumstances.

I hope your are now as delighted as you were previously distraught.