I picked up the P3 this morning - though frankly, James warned me not to. He had it on a cart to wheel out to the car. Should’ve taken his advice. Now my back is out
Just kidding. But seriously - be careful. I did almost drop it. It may be the baby of the line, but daaayam : ). My listening room is slightly tilted in the direction of the rack now.
I know the whole thing in the amp and power area is to go for Overkill, but for me, Killin’ is just fine. How Dead does the shizz have to be?, I ask you. As has been previously established, this can run a pair of M700’s and all your other gear, up to very high peaks without breaking a sweat, all regenerated. So - fully fab for the majority of us humble folk.
ATTN: EARLY ADOPTERS (and any other potential owners): One pointer I got from James which AFAICT has not made it into the manual - or is not yet on the first page, where it belongs in BOLD TYPE, is - DO NOT FLIP the HC/REGEN SWITCH when powered up. YMMV (your manual may vary).*
It is a thing I can see having wanted to do myself if I hadn’t been told in advance. As in, “Hey, what’s the difference in sound between HC and REGEN? Nice - I can just flip the switch!”
NEIN. NOT. DO NOT TRY.
Anyhow - here’s a place to post your impressions and questions. Give me the weekend to sort out how this compares with my aged P3 : )
BTW - re: the Manual, as I in no way want to detract from it with the above comments - LOVE the Large Format, Large Type, clarity and detail.
EDIT: THE MANUAL SAYS NOT TO DO IT IN BOLD CAPS on page 8. I tend not to read manuals right away. Dumb, I know, but I’m guessing I’m not alone, especially with something fairly straightforward or that I have owned before like this unit.
We implemented some hardy protection circuitry to prevent things from exploding if you switch back and forth between HC and Regen, though that is NOT an endorsement to do it. If you want to compare, make sure you power down the P3 before hitting the switch.
I just bring it up so folks know they won’t harm their gear if you accidentally hit the switch while things are on.
Well, no - not unless you have Multiple Massive Amps. As I mentioned, you can run a pair of M700’s on any of the REGEN outlets of this with no worries. One of the appealing aspects of this (aside from being built off the schematics of the P20) is that it has very high peak output capability on any of the outlets. Most folks’ systems won’t come close to taxing this thing.
I would have to defer to Darren or any of the other folks involved with creating this component for specifics. If you do not plug the subs into it, I feel completely confident in saying, “No Sweat Whatsoever” up to some Majorly Sick Amps and Subs some of you may have, Driven to their Limits. Most folks never turn their systems up that loud, as the Room prohibits it.
Few people have the Room, Speakers, Amps and Subs - not to mention the Ability to Crank Them to Concert Levels, that would tax this thing. This is not to say that the bigger units are not the shizz…I hefted the toroidal transformer from one of the bigger units, and it weighed roughly the same as this whole piece. I’m all about suiting the gear to the task.
However - given most amps and subs in most non-Gigantic (audio show-level) Systems…I’m guessing they would not even come close to taxing this unit.
Early Days.
One very early, untested impression I have at this point (which is nonetheless often a good one) is that I have no desire to turn off or modify what I’m listening to. I started out intending to play the Test tracks I had just listened to. Instead - Digging the jams. There is Music happening here.
Nice. Yeah, not really concerned with the load it would drive, more the change from PCM to DSD for the sine wave and what it does to the sound, dynamics, texture, etc.
I probably average 65dB, 75-80 is cranking it for me. Space is too small.
Enjoy and keep giving us your impressions. How does it sound!
Early, un-A/B’ed impressions: “Smoother”-sounding than the old P3 (don’t ask me what that means yet, I’ll work on it - a result of the DSD thing?) blacker backgound, more dynamic - I’m turning stuff down - greater separation of the sound from the speakers. Mostly listening to Qobuz on the Auralic Aries G1 at this point, and it seems to sound more like an analog source. Maybe that’s another way to say “smoother”. Still very early on, have not had much time to listen.
Frankly I haven’t read anything about this, so I looked it up here on the Site, and lo and behold, much of the above is just what they claim… : ). I’m going to try different sources later today, going to a show tonight, so won’t be able to give it a ton of time today. At some point I want to put in the old P3 again, as well as trying it with nothing, just for grins.
Have had the new P3 in the system for a couple of weeks while I evaluate speaker cables. Yesterday, I put the old P3 back in, and I have bad news…for my wallet. No contest. For those old P3 owners like myself, if you don’t plan on buying the new P3, don’t listen to it ; )
One of the bonuses of power products like this one is that it “raises all boats”, as with speaker cables, they can improve the sound of all of your sources and components. So in that sense they are a better investment than spending a similar amount on a cable or tweak that only affects one component or part of the chain.
Going back to the old P3, the sound got more closed in, less dynamic and in a flat plane between the speakers. Switching back to listen to the same tracks with the new P3, everything was “bigger”, more open and free of the speakers, cleaner with noticably better dynamics. I wish all comparisons were this easy.
Do you really need a regenerator and not just a conditioner if system is incapable of ever drawing even close to 5 amps? On dedicated 20A line. No one answered my other post.
I thought they are supposed to supply more power than the wall can during transients. I did not know if a good conditioner was equal or worse than a regenerator. For instance Shunyata makes conditioners much more expensive than P20. Of course I do not need that. I just wondered if a conditioner like Dectet would suffice in a small low power situation or if P3 will still sound much better. I must put it on it’s side on floor but can put the vents facing the open air.
The link I gave shows that even with simple loads standard linear supplies can try to gulp 10 times the nominal current 120 times a second. A conditioner will very probably add reactance to its output lessening the ability for the linear power supply caps to refill as full or fast. The more recent PS Audio products explicitly can supply many amps when called upon: i.e. they have a low output impedance when it counts. To PS Audio’s way of thinking filtering the power does just the opposite of what is required.
[P.S. The simulated example has no transients, but still shows that a supply can need many big gulps of current.]
I have a DVM on other side of outlet(True RMS) with data recording. It has never drawn more than 4.8 amps and usually closer to 3.6 amps. Right now it is just on a power box, no protection or filtering. I do not understand other companies philosophy to make a $20,000 filter/protection? Of course I do not want that. I was hoping something under $1,000 would suffice. Which is obviously not going to be a regenerator. What about a UPS? Also interesting Mark Levinson manuals say to plug directly into wall for best performance. I am confused to say the least. I know nothing about this stuff. Thank you MR. Smith.
0.3MS. Top of the line Agilant. It is also a scope. I wonder if I would get a better idea using the scope for the waveform? Set to record data every 300th of a second. Loaded to PC and checked for peak current in their software. Of course it posted hundreds of pages in 5 days.
I’m getting a Shunyata next month. I don’t have a P20 to compare it against. The only P20 I know of in this part of the world broke down twice and the owner sent it back. So I’ve only got my P3 to A/B it with.
By the way, Shunyata have some new more affordable power conditioner models coming soon.
Brodric, you had bad luck with PSA just like me! I wonder why you are still here though? I still have all my PSA stuff even though it is mostly half functional.
I guess Shunyata is not a conditioner either but also a sort of regenerator. It uses huge capacitors instead of a toroid. Although I would doubt it could recover as quickly? Not sure but it is a heck of a lot more money for the top of the line ones. Maybe it is in fact classified as a conditioner and not a regenerator? I guess Torus regenerators are good too. just what I read. PS is supposed to be tops but reviewers did not have it long enough to break! I am not hating on PS. I still have it all and just deal with it’s shortcomings. I guess there are some bad units and many good ones. I do not play the lottery for this very reason! I am wondering what is a really good small conditioner? furman, furutech? I do not feel that I need more power in this system. lights do not even dim at all. then you know you are drawing too much power! Although it is on a dedicated line. Interesting that all Mark Levinson manuals say best performance is right into wall. I guess well designed power supplies in high end equipment can handle pretty much whatever except maybe brownout, blackout. which begs the question UPS? Often 1/2 second brownout turns off everything but rarely blackout. I believe it is this darn tree rubbing on cables coming into house. I have 2x 400 amp service and 1x 200 amp service with sub box for stereos and theater. It is a large home. 3phase coming in but only use 1 and 2 phase. I wonder what I can get around a grand? I think Panamax is junk even though it is also Furman? Furman good enough to make the music we listen to… I guess, believe it or not monster is okay to but no shunyata. Plus I do not like captive power cords on them. how is top of the line panama? I know MR. Smith will say junk I bet(not to put words in his mouth though) but anyone else have thoughts? Or APC home theater UPS? Not sure but not wanting to spend a lot of money on what is probably the most important part of the system! It is just bedroom system but it is by no means a low end system. Thanks
