Playing back DVD-V and other formats


#1

I’m getting ready to order some new tunes from SoundKeeper Recordings. They offer different formats other than CD, namely DVD-V, .wav and .aif.

I think that the 24/96 DVD-V should be playable on the DMP (not the .wav or .aif though) but I thought I’d check 1st before paying for the music in this format. So if anyone knows for sure I’d appreciate confirmation.

Thank you in advance

SoundKeeper Recording format blurb below (www.soundkeeperrecordings.com/FAQ)

Why are Soundkeeper Recordings offered in multiple formats?

Our stated goal is to bring the listener to the performance, to create the feeling the listener is in the presence of the musicians, in the space where the performance actually took place. In keeping with this goal, we will work with the replicators to ensure the highest quality pressings possible. However, our experience has been that even the best replicated discs do not sound exactly like the digital masters from which they are made. While the difference can be subtle, a slow burned CD-R does a better job of capturing the fine detail and focus of the original.

With this in mind, we have decided to offer our customers the option. For those who want the absolute highest quality CD possible and whose players can play back a CD-R, we will make available a CD-R version, recorded one at a time, directly from the computer hard drive CD master.

NOTE: The benefits of the CD-R version pertain to playing the disc in real time, in a CD player or transport. If you intend to extract the files to hard drive for use with a music server, there will be no advantage to the CD-R. You will attain the same performance at less expense with our CD pressing.

To take it another step up on the quality ladder, for those whose DVD players can play back a DVD-R, for some projects we will also offer a high resolution DVD-R version of our recordings. These will be 24-bit, 96k sampled stereo audio, recorded one at a time, directly from the high resolution computer hard drive DVD master, onto DVD-R. Note this is not a reference to DVD-A (DVD Audio) discs, which require a special player. We are referring to ordinary DVD-R discs that will play in most standard DVD players. Soundkeeper Recordings DVD-Rs will utilize the stereo PCM tracks that have been part of the DVD-V (DVD Video) standard from the beginning. In this way, listeners can enjoy the sonic benefits of our high resolution recording system.

The DVD-R version will not contain video other than a navigation menu. However, these discs do not require use of a video display and can be navigated just like a CD, using the front panel controls on the DVD player or those on the remote.

NOTE: Our 24/96 (audio only) DVD-Rs are in DVD-V (video) format and contain 24/96 stereo PCM audio. These will play in most DVD players. They do not contain .aif or .wav files.

Next come our files-on-disc formats, for use with computer music server applications, such as iTunes. These are high resolution, 24-bit files at either 96k or 192k, in uncompressed .aif or .wav format, custom burned to DVD-R. The sample rate and format are customer’s choice at order time. Simply import the files into the music server program of your choice. High quality album cover art and a pdf of the liner notes will be included.

Our original recordings are now done at 24/192 and for the first time, you can hear them in that format too. For folks whose DAC (digital to analog converter) only goes up to 96k, we offer versions at this rate as well.

As an added bonus, the artwork with the first 25 copies of each of the custom burned formats (the CD-R, DVD-R, 24/96 .aif files-on-disc, 24/96 .wav files-on-disc, 24/192 .aif files-on-disc and 24/192 .wav files-on-disc) will be autographed by the artist.

NOTE: Our files-on-disc DVD-Rs contain files for use with computer music servers only. They will not play in CD, DVD or SACD players. Note also that many hardware players that claim to play computer files will not play all computer files. Our files-on-disc DVD-Rs are intended only for playback from computers.

So, to sum up, we offer our releases in up to seven different formats. In addition to the regular CD pressing, our six custom burned formats are:
CD-R
DVD-R (in DVD-V format, playable in most DVD players)
24/96 .aif files-on-disc
24/96 .wav files-on-disc
24/192 .aif files-on-disc
24/192 .wav files-on-disc
Every Soundkeeper Recording might not be available in all seven formats. Some may be initially offered in one or two formats, with the others being added if there is sufficient demand.

#2

Frank, no offense, but I didn’t mean to thank you. That thank you key is in an area that is easy to hit by mistake.

I am interested in the music that they sell, I’ll take a look.


#3

I have a couple of HRx discs from Reference Recordings. These are DVDs containing WAV files and they play fine in the DMP. WAV is on the list of formats playable in the DMP.


#4
jeffstarr said Frank, offense, but I didn't mean to thank you. That thank you key is in an area that is easy to hit by mistake.

I am interested in the music that they sell, I’ll take a look.


Haha

#5

I wouldn’t necessarily bet money on it, Frank. DVD-ROMs are what I’ve been burning various non-playing, random-format files to for playback on the DMP. On paper it sounds like they should work, but the DMP may have issues with DVD-V formatting. Hard to say. It’s not clear to me on first read why Soundkeeper is choosing DVD-V over DVD-ROM.

The other issue I’ve had is DVD-A and/or DVD-V audio files that should have no gap between cuts (as with the Genesis Lamb Lies Down DVD-A) play back with brief gaps. The sound is also not properly balanced - more information in the bass and midrange, which is good, but too much high end.

Of course the reissue had to be made from some master or another, MANY years after it was made, so some changes due to time are understandable. For the heck of it I may put all the files in Audition or Logic, string them together with proper gaps (or none) and EQ the top end some. But seems like a pain when the album still sounds great…


#6

Frank, even that I screwed up, I meant to say “no offense”.

I do want to thank you for posting the link for the Iconoclastic price list. Thank you!


#7
badbeef said I wouldn't necessarily bet money on it, Frank. DVD-ROMs are what I've been burning various non-playing, random-format files to for playback on the DMP. On paper it sounds like they should work, but the DMP may have issues with DVD-V formatting. Hard to say. It's not clear to me on first read why Soundkeeper is choosing DVD-V over DVD-ROM.

The other issue I’ve had is DVD-A and/or DVD-V audio files that should have no gap between cuts (as with the Genesis Lamb Lies Down DVD-A) play back with brief gaps. The sound is also not properly balanced - more information in the bass and midrange, which is good, but too much high end.

Of course the reissue had to be made from some master or another, MANY years after it was made, so some changes due to time are understandable. For the heck of it I may put all the files in Audition or Logic, string them together with proper gaps (or none) and EQ the top end some. But seems like a pain when the album still sounds great…


Hi BB,

Thank you for the comments - I wondered how well the ‘alternative’ formats were fairing with playback - as I’m in Oz and I’ve already got a couple of the SK CD’s which sound great I think this time I’ll stay with the proven CD format for now.

I should try a few tests using tracks in DVD-V format before committing $ to entire albums.


#8
badbeef said The other issue I've had is DVD-A and/or DVD-V audio files that should have no gap between cuts (as with the Genesis Lamb Lies Down DVD-A) play back with brief gaps.
Does this DVD-A play without gaps on other players? If so, on what equipment?
The sound is also not properly balanced - more information in the bass and midrange, which is good, but too much high end.
This should not be the case. DVD-A is just PCM. How does it sound on other players?

#9

Sorry guys, I wrote a confused and confusing post.

I had gotten somewhat obsessed with burning various-format discs’ music tracks to DVD-ROM for more convenient playback on the DMP, and lost track of what does (or doesn’t) work. The vinyl rips I did over the years to DSD Discs would not play at all until reburned to DVD-ROM.

The Genesis DVD DOES in fact play through continuously on the DMP. Tapping the Note button jumps to the stereo program. You do, however want/need to let it play straight through though - navigation within the album doesn’t really work for me.

On the other hand, the DVD-ROM I burned of the music tracks taken from that disc DOES NOT play back gapless - which led to my ERRONEOUS POST. I had simply forgotten that this was a disc that (basically) works in the DMP, so there was no need to make a -ROM of it.

With regard to the sound - I was talking about the mastering, not the DMP. I just find it kinda tilted to the top end, but as noted, that could be the condition of the masters, how it was Remastered, or how they sounded originally. No idea.

This was all by way of saying that not all higher-res versions are necessarily to one’s taste, and HAS NOTHING TO DO with the DMP. I put on two different vinyl versions, and they sound different from one another, and both sound “smaller” than the DVD version, but somehow more coherent. Could just be that’s what I’m used to with regard to that album. The DVD sounds “better” by most audiophile criteria - you can hear more detail and so on. I just sort of wish they had allowed the bass to be as fat as the top end is bright. Or tamed the top so it could be turned up. I guess I could just crank the subs! You also can do the entire four sides in one go without getting up, if you wish, which is nice.

I also wondered about Soundkeeper offering so many different resolution versions. If the CD is really good, that will be awesome on the DMP. If there is an actual, higher-res master, that would just be one of the formats. The others are up- or down-rezzes, and so unnecessary. I went the whole up-res route for a while, then came back to feeling the original format (on a player/DAC that does that format natively and well) is best.


#10
badbeef said The vinyl rips I did over the years to DSD Discs would not play at all until reburned to DVD-ROM.
To what did you originally burn the content; i.e., what is a DSD Disc? Is this a DVD disc with .dsf files?

By DVD-ROM I assume you just mean a DVD-R or DVD+R.


#11
Elk said
badbeef said The vinyl rips I did over the years to DSD Discs would not play at all until reburned to DVD-ROM.
To what did you originally burn the content; i.e., what is a DSD Disc? Is this a DVD disc with .dsf files?

By DVD-ROM I assume you just mean a DVD-R or DVD+R.

DVD-ROM (read-only memory) is a format like DVD-V or DVD-A, which allows either Mac or Windows formatting - or BOTH on the same disc, burned to separate areas, and is a DATA disc rather than a video or audio disc. As such it can contain anything, including video or audio clips or other data, but AS separate DATA files, not formatted into a traditional video "DVD" with menu control that you put in your DVD player.

DVD-R (“DVD minus R”) and DVD+R (“DVD plus R”) are different flavors of recordable discs that work with certain drives and burners, more or less. Typically, “minus R” discs were more compatible with more drives (at least years ago, for end users and clients using either Windows or Mac computers with DVD drives in them) and DVD-video players. (With DVD-ROM, DVD-V and DVD-A, you don’t pronounce the hyphen as “minus”.)

DSD Discs were a proprietary format which allowed burning your own .dsf or .dff files (DSD recordings from pro recorders like the Korgs and Tascams) on to recordable DVDs that could then be read by/played on some Sony SACD players and some PS3’s. I used to make them with Korg’s Audiogate software, and burned them to DVD-Rs. These all played in my Sony SA-SCD5400EX (I think that’s the model # - I traded it in on my DMP). None would play at all in the DMP. All that was needed was to copy the files and burn them to a DVD-ROM disc that was EITHER Windows OR Windows/Mac formatted (not just Mac), and they play on the DMP just fine. That’s what got me started on ripping anything I had on discs that were difficult to navigate on the DMP to DVD-ROM discs, which then show up as normal sets of files on the DMP.

So this was a way of preserving vinyl at the current state of both the record and your vinyl playback chain. Two difficulties: 1) if you improve your chain, you want to do it over again, and 2) I still have not really heard a recording of vinyl that sounds as good as the vinyl playing back live from the turntable. I would be interested to hear from the folks who ripped the Ahmad Jamal’s Alhambra needle-drop .dsf files (which sound fantastic) if that is the case for them as well. Something always seems to be lost in translation.


#12

DMP-Related stuff;

Follow up on tLLDoB: (kinda like LoTR)…NOW I remember what the deal was - you can get the stereo tracks going on the DMP, (not without effort) but it treats the whole album as a single cut, even though each track’s progress is shown by the bar, with elapsed and remaining time shown fore and aft.

When it hits the end of a track, the bar jumps back a random amount and counts from there. Not back to zero, but back an amount I haven’t figured out. Never seems to be more than a third. But who cares, right?

No big deal if you’re not trying to take a break for whatever reason. But neither tapping on the display’s bar or the remote will do Anything, even so much as Pause. It will Stop - that’s the only thing I could get it to do - and then you have to start at the beginning again. THAT was why I was thinking of making a new DVD-ROM disc which I had hoped would play contiguously. Which it didn’t. (Not DMP’s fault)

THIS is why I was postulating earlier that DVD-V discs were an issue. The DMP certainly has issues with the many random and varied menu structures that DVDs present, which is entirely understandable. It does not navigate via video menus. Fair enough.

NON-DMP STUFF: (this is sort of a Re-issue sound review, I guess…not very scientific)

re: Mastering of tLLDoB DVD Reissue: Even when I crank the subs far beyond that necessary for the leanest disc, it JUST gets to where the bass is satisfying - (Track 2, e.g. “Fly on a Windshield”'s bass is appropriately FAT compared to the rest of the sound) but the issues I have with the top end are still there.

There are some recordings/remasters that are flat (holds hand edge-on, horizontally in front of face) and those that are “tilted” (tips hand up to the right, towards “treble”) where there is both less bottom and more top, while mostly preserving the midrange. This is essentially one of those, BUT, even when the subs are cranked, stuff like vocals, tambourines, cymbals, etc. ESPECIALLY during louder passages, are exaggerated/tizzy/irritating/stick out. It sounds like a 5-7kHz or so-ish hump to me.

I know, I should just partake of some more of whatever floats my boat, then I’ll be less critical. Rarely a bad idea. You Only Live Twice.

I’ve often said, “Two beers are worth about $20,000 in equipment upgrades”. Plus or minus a zero. Especially now that beer ABV’s are averaging around 7 or so. (YMMV based upon tolerance, system cost, or both)


#13
badbeef said THAT was why I was thinking of making a new DVD-ROM disc which I had hoped would play contiguously. Which it didn't.
Unfortunate as this would have been a good solution.

(Having little interest in pop culture i need to look up acronyms such as LoTR. Once I get the answer, I at least know what this is. Amusingly, looking up tLLDoB tells me what it is, but still know nothing of it. Delicious, almost ironic. :slight_smile: )


#14

Pop culture? I guess so. I was made aware of The Lord of the Rings (which was then merely an extremely long book) by my odd, younger neighbor’s parents telling my mom about it. Maybe mid-late 60’s.

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, the last Genesis album with Peter Gabriel as lead singer/composer, was (what came to be called later) a Prog-Rock masterpiece. We just thought it was awesome music at the time… 65_gif41_giftmi_gif 77_gif


#15

Yes, looking up the acronym led me to the album title, but I have never heard of it and even less experience with what it contains.

I’ve read the Lord of the Rings books, but was unaware of the acronym.

There is nothing wrong with pop culture. One should engage in whatever one enjoys.


#16

I read the trilogy over 40 years ago. At the time I found listening to T- Rex’s “The Slider” and “Tanks” to be the perfect accompaniment.

Just a fun fact;-)


#17

Elk - kinda made up the acronym for the Genesis album. I had been referring to it earlier in this thread, and the First Letters of the Words thing ended up being a theme in Paul’s Posts today, so it sorta leaked over into here.itwasntme_gif


#18

No problem, I had the same issue with DSotM. I Googled the acronym and subsequent picked up the SACD so I knew what people were talking about.

I also ask lots of questions.

Even the most modest pop culture literacy comes at a price. :slight_smile:


#19

Hi All,

I’m having an intriguing issue with the DMP playing a couple of SoundKeeper albums I just downloaded in .WAV format and put on to USB sticks.

Background: I have 3 other ‘high-res’ albums in WAV format that I have downloaded from HDtracks, copied to USB sticks and play without issue on the DMP.

I thought I’d try a comparison of the 16/44 album and the 24/192 to see if I could hear any difference. However the DMP will not play the WAV files.

I insert the USB stick in to the port on the front of the DMP and it appears to read the data ok, the song title appears, it shows as USB stick in top LH corner, the file format is correctly displayed etc. I press ‘play’ the DMP display changes as though it is beginning to play then it reverts to the ‘ready to play’ screen… no music is played, just a flip from play to ready to play??? This happened on both the 16/44 and the 24/192 files. It doesn’t matter which tracks I choose to play.

The interesting thing is that my PC will play the music files on the USB stick…

Anyone got any thoughts on what the issue might be?

I can try to re-download and put on another USB stick but the fact that the PC reads and plays the files okay suggests to me that the file structure and the stick are okay.

I look forward to your comments,

Regards

Frank


#20

That’s a new one. Look for a pattern of difference - that’s the only thing I can suggest for the moment.