PMG 512 DAC first impressions

Audio Components
583

Source comparison

I was curious about how the sound quality of the PMG Streamer would compare with that of the PW SACD Transport. I did not formally break the PMG DAC in but I have been using it 2-3 hours per day since I received it ~3 weeks ago, so ~50+ hours?

System: PW SACD Transport / PMG DAC/Streamer / M1200s /Magnepan 3.7is; SACD Transport connected to the DAC via I2S with Audioquest Carbon HDMI cable, Streamer connected to the internet via Ethernet class 8 cable.

Test tracks: I listen primarily to classical orchestral music, so classical it is. The Planets, Dutoit, Montreal, Decca - Mars, Mercury and Uranus; Also Sprach Zarathustra, Solti, Chicago, Decca. All tracks available on CD 44.1/16 and on Qobuz, also 44.1/16. All tracks are well recorded.

Impressions: Both sources sounded very good and the differences between them were small, however, to my ears the SACD transport offered a bit more clarity, transparency, possibly openness, and better attack on transients. The rasp of the brass and low strings was clearer and triangle strikes were sharper. I didn’t notice any difference in the sound of cymbals nor in the soundstage or placement of instruments within it. Overall, I would say the SACD transport sounded a touch more natural and a bit closer to a live performance. Both were pleasant to listen to.

Another comparison: Initially I thought of using the Mahler symphonies recorded by Michael Tilson-Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony as test pieces because they were originally recorded very well in DSD and offer excellent sound. They were released as hybrid SACDs so both 44.1/16 bit and DSD64 formats are available to the SACD Transport. However, Qobuz only offers HiRes 96 or 192/24 bit versions so apples and oranges. Comparing the formats rather than the hardware, I would say the CD 44.1/16 bit versions via the SACD Transport sound good, the HiRes Qobuz versions sound richer and more detailed, but the SACD DSD versions sound distinctly different and are, hands down, the winners. Better clarity and definition, a more natural sound, but what really sets them apart for me is their three-dimensional presentation. The orchestra is laid out before you in breadth and depth. The difference is immediately striking. No surprises there.

Other thoughts or experiences?

584

My fantasy. It seems that most really like the DAC portion of the PMG 512 and the streamer is very troublesome. So, imagine if the PMG 512 was offered at a lower price without the streamer.

It was just a thought experiment.

585

Sounds reasonable! I mentioned the same about the MU2…

586

Thanks for the comparison, and this was what got me interested in PMG DAC. I want to have the best setup to play SACD collection (500), and PMG DAC seems to be the ticket. I like tomhail’s idea since I do not need to have another great streamer.:grin: But if it does it needs to be problem free like my current one.

587

Delia was out of the office, got an auto reply email - called in and was told a software update was due out very soon. And also was told not to worry about the 1 month trial, would be extended and start once issues are ironed out - although the sonic improvement is dramatic and I really really just want every little bug to get fixed so i can keep the PMG DAC without heaitation. Am a bit frustrated, but also amazed each time I listen - and certain PS Audio will do right by us as they always do, so am just going along with the process.

588

Okay, kiddies….new firmware just dropped. Struggling again, today, with my network problems documented earlier in the thread. Was trying to connect and checked the streamer firmware…crossing my fingers…bam. There it was. Again, glutton for punishment….updated to “56b567”.

@delia Network is stable, so far, connecting to Roon, but, now have low level clicks when I change tracks. Did not have them in any previous firmware(s). Doesn’t matter format…FLAC or DSF/DSD.

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589

Couldn’t agree more. I started w/a DSD Sr (APS upgraded/still have in second rig) and traded the MKII for the PMG. Also moved from the BHK Pre to the PMG Pre in the past 2 weeks. Have always loved my BHK gear but holy cow…this combo is hands down the best I’ve owned. My BHK 250 pairs very well with it.

Again, agree. I’ve been a customer since ~2017 and there’s always a bit of 2 steps forward, 1 step back with new releases. My previous life was IT/small and mainframe computers/database management…so, I’m used to the pitfalls of technology. Frustrating as this past 2 weeks has been, I’m sure the fine folks at PS Audio will get it sorted.

590

I see what you did there.

:wink:

The bugs are a shame, but soon to be eradicated I hope.

591

@jaycee where did you get the upgrade? I just looked in Downloads – PS Audio and 2.5.4 from Oct 8 is there?

592

Over the air (network). I looked, too, and it isn’t posted for download, yet. I make it a habit of saving all downloaded firmware in case I need to fall back to a previous version. I’m PST, so it was released after work hours in Boulder. Go to the main menu on the DAC and select “System”, followed by “Streamer FW”. It’ll tell you there’s an update (or you’re current).

Edit to add…I had to do a factory reset and reentered the AP network credentials after the update. Also, do a hard reboot using the power switch. IMO, good practice.

593

Ah yes OTA install. It’s a wonderful process.Thanks kindling. I received my 512 DAC today, it’s coming to room temperature. It’s late November in NH. I’ll configure it tomorrow.

594

Kindly.

595

You’re welcome. Congrats on the DAC. I hope all goes well. I’d be surprised if you don’t find it sounds better than your MKII.

I know NH in November….it’s only going to get colder! Pease AFB was my first duty station and my daughter was born there. Great state and wonderful memories. Unfortunately, didn’t get more than 2 years there because the base closed.

596

I’ve been in NH, Massachusetts since 1980, sad to say climate change is warming NE wintersI. I’m rebuilding my entire system. New PMG SACD, from PST. New DAC, AQ Vodka → AQ Dragon. Within the month; Mac MA352 Int → Audio Research separates new LS3, S-200, Sonus Faber Maxima Amator → Acora MRC-3. A lot of burnin a head.There’s a benefit to doing the right thing 40 years ago with 401Ks.:blush:. I’ve been into Music,it’s reproduction since 4,5 years old. At 66 it’s time to reap the harvest I’ve sown.

597

Did you purchase your AR Ls3, S-200, Acora MRC-3 from Fidelis? Walter and the staff are really great to work with. How do you like the AR S-200? Its at the top of my list for amp upgrade. I have auditioned the Acora MRC-3 a few times there, not sold on them as of yet. Did you listen to them with the AR components? When I was there they had them hooked up to Mid level equipment.

598

Oh wow clicks for all tracks, maybe I will hold off on this one. Seems like backwards step. No text file to see what they were trying to fix.

599

The updates seems to behave different between units?

I made the “56b567” update last night, and now my unit is “maybe, almost..” OK :slightly_smiling_face: . Like before I made the update, did a reset of the unit and then started to listen. Just in the beginning I had two short dropouts in the first two songs. I then tried maybe 25 songs in Roon, Cobuz connect, Apple Music, Tidal connect, and all of them delivered fine music with no dropouts, static or clicks. The display showed the correct sampling frequency in all songs. I have not tested DSD yet though.

600

The new PMG 200 amp looks nice, and Paul said it sounds better than 600 even! But no idea when will be available.

601

I’ve installed the new streamer firmware, as well.

After power-cycling the DAC, I had encouraging results streaming and listening to DSF files from my UPnP server…but then, thud. I now get the same “an error occurred while sending the action to the renderer” message from JPlay when hitting pause on a track, and no amount of cajoling allows me to start streaming DSD again.

I’ve restarted the streamer, I’ve restarted the DAC, I’ve restarted the app, I’ve used a different physical server, but the results don’t improve. A track will play a bit, then jump back to the start as if finished, or it won’t start at all, though JPlay believes it has. Pressing pause when the progress dot sits idle at the beginning of the track leads to the “an error occurred…” message from JPlay.

PCM files exhibit the same or similar behavior after the malfunction, refusing to play and erroring in the same way. Qobuz Connect stops working.

I’d estimate that adding the streamer to the PMG 512 led to ~$1,000 increase in its price, cash I’d gladly have put towards a streamer that works instead of buying one that doesn’t.

I know the Roon guys don’t care as long as that works, but we’re not all Roon guys. I’m not really down with investing in that ecosystem simply because it’s a workaround to using the PMG DAC’s streamer. I’d like it to support DLNA/UPnP, as advertised. I suspect I’m not alone.

If there’s no light at the end of this tunnel with my remaining ten days or so in my trial period, I’m going to have to ship the DAC back as a failed experiment. I don’t need this frustration.

— Chris

602

Hi Donald, Paul clarified things up and said the PMG 200 mono’s sound better than the 600. I’m interested in the 200 stereo amp. I need to be patient LOL: I am interested in the PMG Dac also but way to many issues right now with that. If they finally fix everything before the amp comes out i will go with the dac and keep my amp. Shouldnt you be golfing right now?:smiley: