Problems with PMG 512 dac?

[mitchb105]

Is everyone having problems with this dac or is it only some people? I am afraid for problems to invest in this dac. I am wanting it to function properly as it would be my next major investment if it worked without all of the problems I am reading about.

[falling_leaves]

PMG 512 DAC first impressions

First, let me say that after many hours of listening/burn in, I am amazed at how great this DAC is and the drums have finally come to life (as it was mentioned they would). Ahhh, the kick pedal! These are my PMG DAC Issues: Screen blinking (sometimes) Sticks on one input (after playing through that input for a long time - ie, a burn-in track from an SACD) USB (my streamer) input loses sample Rate Display if switching between inputs - have to power down and power up from back to get it back, …

[flenser55]

If you’ll be streaming DSD from a UPnP server and intend to use the PMG 512’s internal streamer as the renderer, you won’t be happy with the result. If you’re using an external streamer, there won’t be as much to frustrate you. I can’t comment on Roon, since I’m not a Roonie.

I expect the PSA software team will eventually have that AHA! moment, or a series of them, and the several reported UI and streamer issues will be successfully addressed, but it’s been slow going.

— Chris

[mark-d]

Hold out until the dust clears or move on to another dac…my 2 cents!

[jerryd6]

I have an early production 512 and don’t use the streamer (set to “off” in the menu). The only problem I have is when restarting via the rear power switch. It may take 2 to 4 cycles before the unit will boot up. Once it does there are no problems. I have not had the garbled screen some have reported.

I only post this because it may be useful at some point to distinguish streamer vs non streamer issues.

[mark-d]

For a 9k dac… there should be zero issues.

[gthiel]

@mark-d i agree. IMHO the QA/QC processes could use a thorough analysis. I’ve been a customer for years, products and support are stellar. I visited the mothership a year or so ago, it was a pleasure meeting people and seeing the company in general. We have to remember the products, DACs specifically, are purpose built computers. We’re fortunate that PSAudio doesn’t use a Windows based embedded OS.

[flenser55]

Paul said the streamer is built on an Orange Pi compute module, so it’s using Linux. It uses the well-seasoned open source package gmediarender v0.3 for its UPnP rendering process.

I’m honestly perplexed why DSF files don’t work via UPnP. The simplest testing should’ve shown that they don’t; it only took a minute or so for me to discover and I wasn’t testing, just trying to play music. Maybe there are issues where, e.g., the software assumes the SD card NVRAM is cleared after boot when it isn’t. I sure don’t know, but there doesn’t seem to be a documented QA testing process to ensure solid software releases and updates. Plus, streamer updates are over-the-air and don’t come with release notes, so what’s expected to be new or different in each such update is a secret known only to the developers. I appreciate surprises for my birthday, but not for my software.

[Dirk]

Exactly… isn’t even a consideration. 9k! But regardless of cost the PMG 512 should work faultlessly. Why would one expect anything less and/or put up with a device not fit for purpose.!

[jll37]

I’m thinking I’ll revisit the 512 DAC in the Spring…Love PS products and service, have the DS2 and Transport and Airlens and FR20, but this one is scaring me…someone in a similar thread mentioned a DAC without internal Streamer would be great…

[mark-d]

Couldn’t agree more Dirk! I have owned both the DS dac and memory player transport in the past and both were a bit wonky at times…Although I enjoyed the sound quality for sure…it left a sour taste in my mouth! I have since moved on and will probably never again own PSA stuff.But that’s just me!

[flenser55]

I’ve decided to go ahead and keep the PMG 512, despite the horrific state of the streamer. The DAC sounds just ridiculously good in my system, where previously a DirectStream Sr./Mk 1 provided the digital/analog interface. I was prepared for something better in various nuanced ways, but it turns out there’s really no comparison between the two. It’s so obviously and significantly better in every way I just can’t bring myself to return it. I can listen to my system via my OG Auralic Aries/Matrix X-SPDIF 2/I2S connection with absolutely no issues, and it sounds fabulous. Eventually, I guess PSA will fix its issues, and when that happens I can compare the sound of my current setup vs. the DAC’s built-in streamer and switch if I want to.

Here’s what I said in an earlier post, and I’ve not changed my opinion:

@flenser55

I was like you until two days ago, when my PMG Sig 512 arrived to take over for my trusty DSD Mk1. I settled in to listen to some familiar performances on the DSD, then to quickly switch to the PMG to listen again to detect the nuances that, hopefully, showed the superiority of the new DAC.

Maybe flabbergasted is too strong a word to describe what I heard, but I think it’ll do. There are no nuances. Everything is obvious, and better, and not in a small way. Instruments are precisely placed, not only across the soundstage but also front-to-back. I didn’t realize my DSD was smearing the size and placement and the actual sound of the sound until I heard the same pieces via the PMG. It’s as though there was always cloud of chaff, diffusing, dulling, and modifying the sound, but I never noticed it until it was gone. Bass is significantly more articulate.

The space between instruments is q u i e t. The timbre and tone of instruments is blatantly clear, and it’s a joy to hear. This fact improves the sound of percussion to perhaps an even greater degree. Transients of any sort are much cleaner.

Please don’t think I’m effecting the persona of some golden-eared audiophile and exaggerating the differences between the two DACs. I’m not. The differences are immediately apparent.

For what it’s worth, for quite some time after I acquired my DSD Mk1 I drove my amplifiers directly with the DAC. When I eventually dusted off my preamp and inserted it between the DSD and amps the sound improvement, particularly with bass, was notable. The PMG, though, has no trouble directly driving my amps with no assistance from my preamp to supply the current they require.

[esscee]

Shame this PMG 512 Dac is not offered in 2 versions, one without the streamer and then another with streamer.

[KevinA]

I wonder how this DAC ever worked at the show where the PMG series was revealed?

[Paul]

It worked flawlessly at the show, as it does in 99% of the homes it is working in.

I think part of the danger in any kind of forum or public place is we wind up reading only negative reports and assume that’s the norm (same problem with reading or watching the news: all you see is the bad stuff). People rarely write in and say that everything’s working just great. Just not human nature.

Of the several hundred PMG DACs out in the field right now we have some problem ones—and we have the majority working correctly.

For the most part, edge cases.

Imagine for a moment building a complicated platform of hardware and software like the PMG 512. When you try it, play it, test it at the factory it works great. The tests you create to weed out any edge cases find one or two problems and you set those aside. You ship out the ones that work. Then they arrive in a customer’s home with different networking, setup, environment—whatever. And a problem surfaces. And that same problem surfaces in a percentage of those you send. We hear about that, try and recreate it so we can fix it, and fail.

Sometimes it’s something we just missed. Other times it’s edge cases.

We are releasing new firmware this afternoon that will hopefully address these edge cases. And that’s the tough problem with software and hardware platforms. They are not the same although it feels like they should be. Same parts, same testing, different results.

[KevinA]

Thanks Paul for your response. I work in IT (Solution Architect) so understand testing (software, hardware and regression) and can appreciate complexities in devices as the PMG DAC. (Appreciate yes, understand ..no)

I think we are all here rooting for the Dac and the PSAudio team and are hoping the next firmware release resolves most of the problems in the wild.

Good luck.

Cheers

Kevin

[flenser55]

Perhaps a form to report trouble if a call to the friendly support line doesn’t result in a solution would be helpful. That would help keep complaints of what could be edge cases from the discussion board, and could prompt for information that would be helpful for developers in reproducing the problem. It would also provide a direct communication channel to the owner to be apprised via follow-ups of the state of a remedy—received, duplicated, unable to duplicate/please provide this additional information, fix being tested, fixed/new firmware soon. Reporting a problem and hearing no acknowledgement feels no different from being ignored or unseen, and leads, as in my case, to frequent complaints on the forum to get a response from PSA. I’ve spoken to folks on the support line and spammed the forum with my problem, but I’ve still heard nothing but crickets. It’d be nice to know if progress is being made, and how I can help if it isn’t.

In my case, which is the failure of the streamer to play DSF files via UPnP, the developers might be happy with a succinct list of particulars: MinimServer 2.2, JPlay, Wi-Fi 6, DSF files, DAC and streamer software versions. There’s no way I’m aware of at present to convey this information directly to the software folks.

I’m hopeful that the firmware soon to be released fixes my issue, but does it? I have no idea if my problem has been or is being addressed.

— Chris

[flenser55]

Even better would be to have trouble reports and developers responses be public and confined to a single thread, so that everyone else with this particular problem could follow along, chime in, and be apprised of the current state of affairs.

— Chris

[JKWAustin]

Clearly, the problem with forums for the developer is that they too are drawn to the negative comments. Paul, have a staff member cull all of the very positive comments so you can sit down with a glass of wine and bask in your success. And don’t dismiss the significant number of us who are keeping our PMG DAC.

[Audioholic]

Are there any members here having zero issues with their PMG DAC?