@dvorak thanks for your post, interesting background and hypothesis.
Bryston has an active industry “circle” on AudioCircle.com, click here.
Great combo. Using the WW Platinum Starlight 7 with great results.
Bryston says the BDP -2 works with every Dac on the market except the PS Audio Dac through the AES/spif outputs. And PS Audio claims the same with the Bryston.
So what am I left to do?
Ted and Paul have both expressed that PS Audio can pursue a fix. But, it has been a couple years now, with no attempt.
Here is the latest from Ted.
“I understand that it’s only 24/192. Because of that I always suspected that it wasn’t a protocol problem so it’s always seemed that it had to be something that changed the waveform output (either level or timing) in the Bryston update. I’m busy at the moment but I’ll have more time in a week or so. We could either ship some hardware around or see if the software change works first. I’m guessing that after I start it would take anywhere from a few days then to a week to write and test the software change.”
“When this first came up neither Bryston nor the customer that had the problem would let PS Audio borrow a device to test with. Nor would Bryston provide a scope shot of their output waveform or a description of what they changed that stopped the connection to the DS from working. We suggested some experiments that might make a difference or at least rule some things out. I never heard back and I don’t know if PS Audio did either. Two of the people at PS Audio that were working on the problem are no longer there. If I If I had a device or perhaps if I had a good scope trace of the waveform I might be able to narrow it down.”
“For the next release of the DS software I intend to try to raise the frequency of the clock used to process inputs (for multiple reasons.) There’s a chance that if the incompatibility with Bryston is electrical that that might fix it.”
Now I’m not an expert on digital signals like some of you seem to claim to be.
But to me, something in that combined signal or that connection should be able to be resolved.
I would at least hope that PS Audio would finally attempt a fix instead of just ignoring it and blaming the other manufacture. In the end, if a an honest attempt is made and it still doesn’t work, I can accept that.
ozzy
As it says above - Bryston are not co operating, not lending a unit and not even providing scope traces to a fellow manufacturer. That sucks big time, and on that basis alone I wouldn’t buy anything from bryston. Ever.
Meantime anything ted tries will be shooting in the dark, likely won’t work, and may have bad side effects for all users.
Your issue really is with Bryston here.
joma0711,
No, I disagree. PS is the one that is altering the signal.
It is hard to believe that PS Audio cannot just obtain a Bryston unit (can’t PS Audio just buy one for testing?) but as stated above in this thread I volunteered to send my Bryston unit to PS.
ozzy
Well they could have just bought one, I agree.
But then they end up having to buy an example of every source out there to do the QC in case a new one comes out that is doing the same “whatever it is” that bryston are doing.
I don’t see that ps audio are changing anything in the datastream, just reading it as per specs, they are building a unit from scratch following published standards, whereas the bog standard receiver chips most are using will have wide tolerances baked in to account for low quality hardware that us out of spec.
See this sort of thing a lot in the computer industry, with the small manufacturer trying to innovate and designing strictly to spec lose out because chip manufacturers are sloppy in their implementations.
Good of you to offer to ship yours though 
Again prob a bit of a slippery slope for them
joma0711,
Thanks for your reply. PS audio doesn’t need to buy every type of source, but they should fully investigate a customer problem. After all this is not the first time hearing about it nor am I the only one complaining about this incompatibility.
ozzy
Aye must be bloody annoying situation!
So the PSA gear is the problem why? Because James and Chris said it was so. Again your gear worked fine with the DS until you changed a part provided by Bryston. That part caused a problem and that is the bottom line no matter how James tries to spin it. In over fours years you have ample opportunity to either change connections, change streamers or change DAC and you have done none of them so it must not be that big of a problem. And as a counterpoint to James claim that it works with any other DAC (I’m sure he has actually tried) , I have used six different streamers with the DS and none of them had a problem. Bryston has never been on my radar for a streamer as it seems to be out of their realm of expertise just like it is for McIntosh.
dawkinsj,
No because PS has confirmed there signal may be the problem. We will never know unless they fully investigate it. That’s all I am asking for. And the part changed in the Bryston unit was to bring my unit up to the newest version. All of Bryston new units come with this new IAD board installed. So none is compatible with PS Audio.
Perhaps PS Audio should put a disclaimer on there site stating, " Not compatible with Bryston equipment". And Bryston should state the same about the incompatibility with PS equipment. Then I say, BUYER BEWARE!
BTW, the reason I like the Bryston BDP player is because I have a 8TB hard drive connected to it with a lot of High Rez recordings. I haven’t found any other piece comparable. I thought about the PS Bridge but they acknowledge it is beyond its capabilities.
ozzy
I think your characterization of this is unfair. We spent a good deal of time attempting to work with Bryston on this and they refused to help. We never “ignored” it.
As Ted suggests, we’ve some ideas to try which we will do in the next release.
We’ve also asked any number of Bryston owners to send us their BDP-2 so we might see this for ourselves and determine what in their output is incompatible. No owner has ever offered to do so.
Might you be the first? We’re still open to taking a look.
1 Like
Paul,
Thank you for your reply.
This is not a one customer issue it is now every BDP unit made from Bryston that will not work in 24/192 with the Direct Stream Dac. It has been over 2 years now and still no progress, I guess I would call this “ignored”.
I reluctantly offered my unit to be the guinia pig with no response. But, I guess I don’t understand why you could not just purchase a Bryston unit to investigate the problem. I’ve seem them go for as low as $800 on Audiogon. Isn’t the research worth it?
You charge a lot for your products. I myself have bought the Direct Stream Dac, CD player and several iterations of the power plants.
Please try to fix this issue.
Thank you,
ozzy
Ozzy
I gotta chime in…I am a massive Bryston fan, and a massive PS Audio fan. I love both companies. And, because of this, it is bothersome (for me) to see you waving blame at each of these fantastic industry leaders.
I know you must feel incredibly frustrated - but please exercise some restraint…after all…it is the holidays man.
I see Ted Smith himself responded directly to your issue - and Ted was very clear he will look into it once he has some time - and Paul committed to keep tabs on this issue in the spirit of customer service. These two simple facts alone demonstrate you are being heard, your issue is noted and action is scheduled. These are commendable follow-ups to your issue. Give these boys some time.
And, regarding PS Audio purchasing a Bryston unit is an absurdly unrealistic expectation to me. Perhaps just send your unit in - take some initiative and just do it… if it’s that important to you.
Besides, the Direct Stream DAC will play high res files via USB output from the BDP2. So the incompatibility complaint you mention isn’t totally accurate, and not a fair statement.
anyway…I am hopeful this issue is eventually addressed - as I own each of these products too. Maybe then you can live happily ever after in hi resolution bliss while using a coax or AES/EBU output from your BDP2.
TJ
2 Likes
Hi tj! I agree with you.
Ozzy, tj and I are both on the Bryston and PS Audio forums and I just wanted to add my comment that you would be hard pressed to find other companies that have the kind of customer service they do. If I had a BDP-2, I would take it to Boulder for you, but I don’t. I have the BDP-1. I can only imagine how frustrated you are about all this. But give Ted and Paul and James Tanner some time to work things out. I sure hope they can! Hang in there!
tj-sully, spyman007,
I understand your replies and appreciate your comments.
But I gotta tell you, PS Audio is kicking the can again. I have been told that they would investigate this issue now several times over the last couple of years and they never do.
And yes, I have offered them to use my Bryston unit as the test case. But, to this day no one has taken me up on it. It has been there excuse. However, if they did I would be without music for however long it takes them to do there thing. Could be weeks , months etc. The better plan IMHO would be for them to obtain a unit on their own and investigate. I can’t believe that money is so tight that they can’t research the issue.
I am not interested in using usb.
Perhaps (I’m hoping) that the newest firmware fix will correct the issue. But, in the end, If does not then I will sell the PS Dac.
Again, thank you for your opinion, but I have mine.
ozzy
@dawkins Excuse me, but no where did I say the problem is with the PSA gear. I have absolutely no idea where the problem lies. As a matter of fact, and as I implied in my post, I’ve never experienced the problem since I have none of the offending 192 khz files. If I did, I would just use the USB output in those instances. But I do understand Ozzymilton’s frustration with the problem and commend his continued efforts to have it addressed.
Out of curiosity, why?
1 Like
I can see why manufacturers never win in these situations. As I see it, Bryston only cares that the BDP works with Bryston gear. They have no interest in compatibility with other products. Their board doesn’t communicate the file format to the DSD. Ozzy is being obtuse in that he has other options that he’s not interested in using, so call it a day and move on. PS Audio is in no way responsible for compatibility with other manufacturer’s products especially when the manufacturer doesn’t want to cooperate, it’s courtesy that they extend. Ted has a pretty full plate and he’s only one person.
Watchdog507,
The info you are omitting is that it is the PS Audio Dac that contorts the signal not the Bryston. The Bryston BDP works with every known dac (except the PS Direct Stream).
Ted has manipulated the signal in such a way that it won’t accept the higher digital files. I know it is for musical improvement and in that respect he is a genius. But it would be nice to be able to see this issue finally put to bed.
That is; Will it / Can it work with the Bryston via AES out / in at 24/192hz files?
BTW, If I wanted to use the usb I would just use my computer instead of the Bryston, which is basically a computer anyway.
Even though it may sound like I am bashing PS Audio I am not. I love their products. But again, after all this time, I would think they could have obtained a Bryston unit and tried to do something.
ozzy
Why not use USB?