Yes, one can have a personality disorder and also be exceptionally talented. His talent went beyond anyone’s opinion.
1 Like
Dude isn’t even dead 24 hours and you are already spitting on his grave 
. . . whatever happened to the old adage, De mortuis nil nisi bonum?
As I noted early on in this thread: “The guy was an unmitigated jerk. This does not change because he is dead.”
Death does not excuse his hideous behaviors.
… And now back to our regularly scheduled Ginger Baker tribute:
3 Likes
For me, it was always Max Roach, Ginger Baker and Joe Morello.
2 Likes
Watch that video I linked… Beware Mr Baker.
He started developing a relationship with his son, a drummer who he abandoned … and left homeless. Then he blew out again and left by telling his son he had no talent and would never get it. Never connected again. The guy was a royal d**k.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
And now for something completely different pressed rats and warthogs
2 Likes
2 Likes
Beware of Mr. Baker. Great Documentary. Starts off with the film Producer getting a punch in the nose by Mr. Baker.
1 Like
I watched that doc with my Son who at the time was a budding drummer at the tender age of 11. My Son said the same thing about the negative stuff but there’s no taking away his Drumming abilities. All the Drummer interviews were kind to him. Go on YouTube and check out Chad Smith’s interview with Ginger Baker. Also, he did a Tour of the Movie and those interviews are on YouTube.
1 Like
The fact that Ginger Baker could be cantankerous and irascible is widely known. This being a music-related forum, I had hoped this thread would be about Ginger’s music.
Great musicians are not always great people all of the time. For numerous examples, check out the “I like the music, but not the musician” thread on the Steve Hoffman Music Forums.
Ginger Baker, arguably the greatest rock drummer of all time, passed away today. At this somber moment, I choose to remember Ginger for his music as opposed to his personal failings.
1 Like
“Cantankerous and irascible?!”
Perhaps he was this pleasant when asleep.
He was an ugly, violent man.
One cannot pretend otherwise.
I think this is interesting… the personality and the music… are they intertwined for the consumer? In some cases yes, in some no. That is very personal to the consumer.
If you have been around abuse or subject to the abuses of a Ginger… well then the connection is inescapable… at least it becomes very hard to enjoy their music. The cognitive dissonances in the abused are well documented and real. Respect their talent, yes, but nothing more. Horrible people who hurt others are just that… horrible in life and in memory.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
I saw Ginger preform twice. The first time was a drum clinic in the late eighties (if memory serves). One memory that sticks out was during the Q&A period at the end. He was asked his opinions of Keith Moon and John Bonham. He said Moon was a good drummer and Bonham was a great drummer. However, in a 2015 interview he stated his distaste for Zeppelin and said Bonham wasn’t a musician.
The second time was when he was with Masters of Reality and they were opening for Iggy Pop (1993?). It was a good show but I mainly remember wondering how he could drum with a lit cigarette in his mouth. I could never do that way back when I used to smoke because it would all go up your nose and in your eyes. I always wondered the same thing about Dave Tough, Keith Richards and Slash for that matter.
Some of my favorite non-Cream tracks of his are on Public Image Ltd.’s Album (Cassette, CD, 8 Track) and his two songs on Jack Bruce’s A Question of Time. Coincidentally Tony Williams plays on both albums as well. Additionally, the Masters of Reality song “She Got Me” is also a good Ginger song.
1 Like
@Elk, we get that you believe Ginger Baker was a really bad person. Assuming you are correct, I think the Ginger bashing in the “R.I.P. Ginger” thread creates a slippery slope for this forum. For example, when someone posts a Miles Davis album cover in the “What are you spinning now?” music thread, is it fair game to respond that Miles was a spousal abuser? What if someone posts an Eric Clapton album cover? Do we want people chiming in that EC was once an avowed racist?
Many of us enjoy Pink Floyd’s music, but Roger Waters is often accused of being anti-Semitic. Should forum members be allowed to start an anti-Roger Waters thread? It would not have occurred to me that such a thread might be permissible until I witnessed the forum moderator repeatedly trashing a legendary rock drummer for his personal behavior while the corpse was still warm.
In the interests of avoiding the slippery slope and keeping the focus on the music, I suggest we follow this guidance in the forum FAQ (emphasis in the original):
“You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people.”
1 Like
Mr. Baker is not being “trashed;” the statements are true, the behaviors inescapable, well-known, and fully documented. There is even a movie. 
Whether he is dead or not is irrelevant.
I appreciate some may want to acknowledge only his performances, ignoring the rest of the person. This is fine. But I take a broader view.
The phrase “criticize ideas, not people” refers to other forum members: treat each other respectfully, do not attack another member, take issue with the contents of the post, not the writer, etc.
And we have discussed Eric Clapton’s racism, Miles Davis’ contempt for his audiences, etc. There is nothing wrong with this. I think we discussed Wagner’s anti-semitic beliefs and whether one should listen to his music or not. They are public figures and there is nothing defamatory in discussing the truth.
1 Like
Fair enough, I must have missed those Clapton, Miles and Wagner posts. By contrast, I recall being reprimanded when I posted to applaud the album cover airbrushing of a Confederate flag on Lucinda Williams’ leather jacket. So perhaps I can be forgiven for not fully understanding the forum’s line between fair comment on a controversial topic versus unacceptable political speech.
1 Like
1 Like
My SGCD replies have equaled my Ginger Baker replies. I did not mean for this to happen. My 2 Canadian cents worth :
My father was a Master Mechanic (specifically North American Cars - No Transmissions or Exhaust’s - he hated that stuff). He could tune a Rochester or Carter 2 or 4 Barrel Carburetor so smoothly, he’s use a glass of Scotch (usually Ballantines) on the hood of a car to see how rough or smooth it was running. He had good ears under the hood too.
A awesome Mechanic but a lousy Dad. Without really getting into it here, Elk’s responses I agree with. Not just because he’s the Moderator but because to me, he’s right. Keith Moon was another one who never got “Father of The Year”. John Bonham’s Alcoholism (from what I’ve read and TV interviews of Plant, Page, & Jones), he was no picnic either.
Brilliant Musician’s or Mechanic’s. That doesn’t give you the right to treat your Family like Crap. R.I.P. Mr. Baker. And please no Knife Attacks at Jack Bruce please.
HIs Drumming was awesome. His comments on Charlie Watts, Keith Moon, John Bonham in the Movie are “classic Ginger”.
Bootzilla, I agree with what you said too, that it was too early to judge the man, but it’s too easy for anyone (including me) not too mention his well publicized personal life. After reading the Auto biography’s of Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, Pete Townsend, Keith Emerson (his is my biased favorite), and Neil Young. “There’s good and bad in everyone”.
1 Like