Do you need the program from the SD Association I linked or something similar? Or is Fat16 now built into the OS as an option?
badbeef saidAs far as I'm aware macOS's built in disk manager only allows for FAT32 formatting (that's what the FAT option is, not 16). As far as I know you need to use terminal or a third party application to format to FAT16. FAT32 might work, but Ted Smith recommends FAT16 be used for obvious reasons (and I suspect part of the reason this thread exists is due to these formatting problems).Pretty much your entire post would seem to be from a Windows perspective, which Mac users would scratch their heads over. I can format a Fat 16 card as easily as Mac - two versions of Mac and MS-DOS and Ex-FAT. Can WIndows users do the same?
…and every sentence has seeming misconceptions as well.
Don’t get me wrong - love ya, man : )
Windows supports exFAT, FAT32, FAT16, NTFS and others (given the right kind of storage device is being formatted) in the same say as show below. Done in 24 seconds. It doesn’t get any easier than that:
Elk, unless macOS has been updated very recently, no, it doesn’t support FAT16, that’s why I said more steps are required. Maybe badbeef can explain how he’s doing it in macOS’s disk manager.
I’ve read the FAT 16 talk, yet have not had an issue with FAT formatting for the Jr. (which is on a USB stick vs. an SD card - so if it is a DS Sr./SD card issue, then mea culpa)
That’s besides the point. You were trying to tell me it’s as easy on macOS. That’s simply incorrect as it requires a few extra steps be taken so the SD card is formatted per PS Audio’s recommendation. This was the whole basis behind why I said macOS users may be having more upgrade problems because of these extra steps (or them not taking them to begin with). Proper formatting will result in less upgrade issues.
…and I am suggesting that you may be mistaken about that.
And it is “beside the point”.
I suppose what I am saying, from a Mac perspective, is that if in fact I cannot properly do FAT 16 formatting, it has not proved to be a problem with respect to upgrading for me.
Reviewing the DS Jr. upgrade thread, many were upgrading using FAT32 as the format, the default for Mac OS when formatting as PC format. Thus, it appears Mac owners need not follow any extra steps for Jr. Sr. however prefers FAT16. (Jr. may as well, but may be more tolerant of FAT32.)
Elk, I did download that program from the SD card assn, as recommended, and formatted my card with it when I did my Redcloud update. The Mac version of that program formatted the card FAT32 and there was no option I could find to change it to FAT16. It literally didn’t provide any options for formatting other than FAT32.
Edit: having said that, the update seemed to work just fine for me, although Ted seems to indicate that is a hit or miss scenario.
I’ve used SD cards from 2Gb to 8Gb - currently I use SanDisk Ultra 8Gb cos’ they are cheap and reliable.
I have always formatted using Fat32 on my windows PC.
I’ve never had an issue with updates (I am uncomfortable letting the hifi gods know this as I’m sure they will now be saying ‘just wait until the next one laddie’)
Frank - I think your post is on point with regard to the general notion that folks who have issues tend to post about 20 times for every upgrader who has no issues.
badbeef saidIf it didn't make any difference at all PS Audio wouldn't have given a specific formatting format that should be used. So no, I'm not mistaken. Before I mentioned anything, you were under the assumption that you were formatting to FAT16. Now all of a sudden your stance is that it doesn't matter? I never said that FAT32 couldn't be used, but as Ted points out, FAT16 is preferred to get rid of any potential problems that might occur during an upgrade. My comments are also based on Sr, not the Jr you have. I have no experience with the Jr. so FAT32 might be just fine.…and I am suggesting that you may be mistaken about that.
And it is “beside the point”.
I suppose what I am saying, from a Mac perspective, is that if in fact I cannot properly do FAT 16 formatting, it has not proved to be a problem with respect to upgrading for me.
To format Fat16 on the Mac you will need to use the Terminal app.
Insert the card and from the command line type this:
diskutil list
Locate the “Identifier” for the card. In my case, it was “disk7”.
To format the card, it needs to be unmounted using “diskutil”. Here is the command:
diskutil unmountDisk disk7
You will get a message telling you if that was successful. If it is, here is the command to format the card Fat16 with the name “DSD”:
sudo newfs_msdos -F 16 -v DSD /dev/disk7
You will be asked to enter your superuser password. That is normally the password of the main account setup as an admin account.
I tested this with a 16GB card and it was formatted to a capacity of 2.15GB.
Neat!
While a gentle bother, this is pretty straightforward. It may help a Mac user with problems installing an update.
Thanks for putting this together.
You’re welcome.
Normally I would just pop the card into my wife’s Windows laptop and format it there as Fat16. I am an ex Unix admin so using the terminal is no big deal for me. Others may not be so comfortable with it but it’s not all that hard to do.
Seegs/speedracer, I’m assuming you are Windows folks, as what I was saying is that, as a Mac person, all the detailed stuff you are outlining does not appear on our radar or matter. If I’m mistaken about that, then, fair enough.
Or, if this is a Senior vs. Junior issue, we’re all “pissing up a rope”.
I am an Apple person through and through. I only use Microsoft garbage when I have to. I worked at Apple for almost 10 years…
I just happen to speak Unix and Windows too…
badbeef said. . . as a Mac person, all the detailed stuff you are outlining does not appear on our radar or matter.
From my understanding this is correct. The Mac DOS default is to format FAT32, and the DS Jr. appears to be comfortable with this. Thus, a Mac user with a Jr. would never know or care what was happening behind the scenes.
Speed’s instructions how to format FAT16 may however be very helpful for those with a DS Jr. having a problem loading new firmware.
I’m a Mac user. I admit to not being too savvy with SD cards etc. . . I left the workplace before these came into use in my workplace. I tried several updates on my own with little success so I have been buying SD cards from PS Audio. Those work splendidly, so I continue that method.
To add a little “no problems here” balance to those taking a tally, I updated the PWD 2-3 times, all the DS updates (I counted 10 “finals” in the Downloads section but only had seven on my computer), five DMP updates, and some NPC updates (via USB stick). Followed the instructions and have not once had a problem. I’m a Windows user for such things, though my daily user is an iPad but ya can’t do that on an iPad. I’m not an IT person and I worked for the DoD and we absolutely could not modify our computers so I had to learn by watching the IT guy do his/her thing. I was an engineer (now retired) so I’m pretty good at reading/following instructions and I usually assume whoever made this thing knows more about it than I do.
For those displaying the Esoteric and Marantz update process as the model of efficiency, well, it is. But keep in mind those are both large corporations (Esoteric is a subsidiary of Pioneer) with lots of software folks backing them up. PS Audio is a small company and has relied on third party vendors for some of their work, and we know how that went … Fingers crossed doing the work in-house is more successful.
For me creating an SD card is part of the high end audio experience, a little hands on makes me feel more a part of the kit.
It’s always been smooth sailing for me. My PC uses Windows10 and formatting is FAT16. Prior to downloading a DS software upgrade, I always completely reformat the card in order to erase all previous information.