Could the discussion about “IMO” be cut out pls.
I don´t see any point in it here (or elsewhere).
Isn´t it obvious that everything written here is “IMO”?
Cheers
Kai
kai said Could the discussion about "IMO" be cut out pls. I don´t see any point in it here (or elsewhere).Isn´t it obvious that everything written here is “IMO”?
Cheers
Kai
Kai,
I think this discussion should stay for the sake of clarity – especially since the moderator is chiming in to clarify matters. This is worthwhile.
vhiner1 said @Elk,I was going to commend you for your post about offensive remarks, but since it’s already been rendered “moot”, I guess there’s really no point.
Elk,
Are you referring to vhiner1’s comments regarding my observation that Take 5 is a poor recording?
I love the way that PS Audio runs this forum. There is no heavy handed editing like you may experience on Audiogon where I tried to post a comment in response to 845 tubes and it was not accepted because I mentioned Ebay a competitor as a place to get the tubes. On the other ,hand I have seen Audiogon let some pretty snarky responses get posted. The PS Audio forum treats us as adults and expects us to treat everybody in turn with respect. A lot of us Audiophiles are very passionate about our hobby and with passion comes emotion which can be good or bad depending upon how it is expressed. To return to the main discussion about Yale I no longer have to turn on the DSD from the rear to get my computer to recognize the drivers which was always a minor annoyance. On the negative side, the DSD will not recognize my DSD recordings as such. They are listed as PCM 176. I am using J River 18 with the DSD over POP enabled so I do not know what the issue is but I will give it another go tomorrow when I get home to see if I can get it running properly.
lwin1949
I agree. Audiogon very often let matters get out of hand. The fur was flying left and right with all manner of personal insulting allowed – threads closed down, posters banned. Very poor management. I don’t know about their Alexa rankings but I think they are paying the price now with far fewer threads and less participation than in the past.
Guy, you are getting lost in the forest for the trees.
lwin1949 said The PS Audio forum treats us as adults and expects us to treat everybody in turn with respect.Exactly. This includes not making snarky comments in the first place. It also includes not relying on emoji and IMO to attempt to make such comments acceptable; an insult delivered while smiling is still an insult.
Duke of Earl said I assume the moderator would take care of "snarky comments and personal attacks" with little hesitation. So, as far as I can see, this is a moot point.See above. No post should ever need to be edited for content. It is very rare that a post on this forum is deleted or edited for content.
Again, we would really appreciate it if you would use the “Add Reply” button rather than quoting everything when you post - it wastes space, especially for those reading the forum on the phone. Please stop quoting when just replying to the above post and if you quote, trim the content to only that needed to put your reply in context.
USEFUL knowledge should be the great object of our desire.
Moving these posts to a dedicated thread is helpful so that we can more easily follow the discussion.
MrDerrick said USEFUL knowledge should be the great object of our desire.Absolutely!
Please note that a number of posts may be missing from this thread. I cannot find them. If they are indeed out there somewhere and I am just missing them, kindly let me know where they can be found. If they are in fact missing, I am sure this must have happened accidentally since Elk has stated that posts are not excised – although I cannot find the post where he made that statement, either.
One missing post is a comment by Elk that I may paraphrase as follows: “It is unfortunate you have taken my comments personally”. I echo this comment regarding my comments about Dave Brubeck’s Take 5 (from Time Out) that were taken by a few posters in a way that was neither intended nor implied. My comments focused strictly on the Brubeck recording, not the person who made them, tony22.
Besides the two above-mentioned posts that I can no longer find, there are a few other posts on this same topic that seem to have disappeared from view. Without all these missing posts it is impossible to follow the discussion. Luckily, I saved the 4 posts of back-and-forth between me and tony22 in one of my files. Please see them below in their entirety.
Paraphrasing, here is what I actually stated in my comments about Take 5:
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" … the recording is not the best for judging the merits of Yale …"
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“The more I listen to it with new FW upgrades the clearer it is that this should not be a reference recording for listening to new DS FW … Although recent masterings are better than the older recordings, to my ears this is still a poor recording with which to judge Yale and other FW upgrades – in my system and IMO. A much better recording from the same era for reference listening to DS FW is Oscar Peterson at the London House in Chicago on Verve.”
As you can see, my comments were focused exclusively on the recording. I cannot see anything about them that can be construed as a “personal attack”, a “snarky comment” or a “snide remark” – as was characterized by posters and by the moderator. It is clear that I was making direct comments on how I feel about the recording. And nothing more.
Perhaps the recording engineer may have taken offense at my comments. But I would not blame him. Although the technology existed at the time to produce better SQ with Take 5 he may have been under various constraints. This is lamentable since this has always been one of my favorite pieces of music.
So, to recap, it is clear that I said the recording was “a poor recording with which to judge Yale …” – not that tony22 was a poor judge or a poor anything. On the contrary, it is clear that he is an astute observer whose comments I respect.
Here are the 4 posts of back-and-forth between me and tony22.
tony22 said:
@ted_b, please listen to Brubeck’s Take Five if you have enough familiarity with it to use for evaluation. Preferably the K2 version (or the one you like best). It’s nowhere near as complex as “Gone, just like a Train” but there’s something about the interplay of drums and sax that (at least for me) sounds a little like the forward flow has been slightly blunted.
Duke of Earl said:
tony22,
I have listened to Take 5 with Yale – the best Columbia version. Frankly, the quality of the recording is not the best for judging the merits of Yale. In my system and IMO.
tony22 said:
Yes I have them all, digital and analog, including the single sided 45 RPMs and an original Columbia from 1960. I’ve also heard it live more than once with Brubeck. The K2 digital is a reasonable recording for Yale, even if it’s not the last word in what seems to be the current habit of recording things for the electron microscope effect. I can hear what I need to hear with no trouble at all in my system; I’ve learned a few things in 35+ years of live and 2-channel listening. Please accord me that benefit.
@Elk, feel free to remove this if you feel some line has been crossed.
Duke of Earl said:
tony22,
I also heard Brubeck live. I have been listening to this recording since the early 1960s – first on reel-to-reel. The more I listen to it with new FW upgrades the clearer it is that this should not be a reference recording for listening to new DS FW. For me the key here is Morello’s muted cymbals at the beginning of the recording. Although recent masterings are better than the older recordings, to my ears this is still a poor recording with which to judge Yale and other FW upgrades – in my system and IMO. A much better recording from the same era for reference listening to DS FW is Oscar Peterson at the London House in Chicago on Verve.
Elk, you make the decisions, but my own opinion is that this all might have been better left in the Yale thread with you making it very clear that no additional off topic postings would be retained (or something like that). Duke’s info above to help clarify is fine, but with none of us being able to recover the original sequencing I think some readers would still not see the flow - which itself helps clarify the context. I, for example, would want to point out that Duke’s additions were followed by my original Yale post which is now Post #12 here. Ironically I was going to ask why that one was in this thread, since I thought its content was very much focused on Yale / 1.2.1. Anyway, without going down the rabbit hole any further I would ask if there’s any alternative.
Duke and Tony make good points.
Playing the devil’s advocate (does that make Elk the devil?) at the Audio Asylum (where I was a moderator for years) when you post something off topic you take your chances that it will retain context if it get’s moved. Just one more reason to stay on topic.
Duke of Earl said Please note that a number of posts may be missing from this thread.All posts are either in the Yale thread in their original location. The only exception is I deleted a few posts which were completely off-topic and without value (my posts regarding unicorns and leprechauns and your replies.)
I also suggest letting go the topic of how others found your approach questionable. You have responded many times, yet again above. Please simply consider how you present your views moving forward. For example, "I do not find this recording useful because . . . " is a great approach. This invites the person suggesting the recording to explain why they do.
tony22 said Elk, you make the decisions, but my own opinion is that this all might have been better left in the Yale thread with you making it very clear that no additional off topic postings would be retained (or something like that). Duke's info above to help clarify is fine, but with none of us being able to recover the original sequencing I think some readers would still not see the flow - which itself helps clarify the context. I, for example, would want to point out that Duke's additions were followed by my original Yale post which is now Post #12 here.Looking at your post #12 here, I think I moved it by mistake. My intent was to move those posts consisting mostly of fussing and unpleasantness while keeping those which are legitimate discussion. For example, it is perfectly appropriate to discuss what recordings one uses to evaluate and why.
I do not think it is productive to try and move everything which is off-topic. This herd of cats likes to post everything into one main active thread. It is frustrating to a new member or someone who is trying to find information on a specific topic, but it is the personality of this forum. Thus, I try to find a compromise.
My suggestion is to create a topic for discussing recordings which are useful for evaluation and to move relevant posts there. Unless another better idea surfaces, please let me know what posts from the Yale thread and this thread should go there and I will move them to a new topic thread.
Ted Smith said Playing the devil's advocate (does that make Elk the devil?) . . .(notice the antlers) And thanks for the observation.
That’s why Elk makes the decisions and not me.
Sometimes though, as here, some info gets removed from the main thread that may still have been pertinent or useful.
If you believe this to be the case, let me know what should be moved back to the main thread. However, I still believe it better to create a separate thread on recordings to use for evaluation so this discussion can continue without mucking up discussion of Yale’s characteristics.
Well, if I remove the last sentence in Post #12 in this thread I think the context is still relevant for the Yale thread - especially as we are now talking about Yale and rhythm in recent posts there. But you decide.
Yes, as I indicated above, your former post 12 in this thread belongs back in the Yale beta thread. I screwed up. Back it goes!
I left the last sentence alone as it supports a separate discussion thread for recordings to use for evaluation. We can copy this post over (at least by copy and paste if need be) to that thread if you find it useful.
“We can copy this post over” - Which one?
Your former post #12 in this thread, now living back again over in the Yale Beta thread.