Room treatment for Magnepans?

Hello fellow PSAudio forum peeps! I am in need of some general advice as to how to best treat my listening space on a pretty limited budget. I have been working with GIK on this project and they have made a number of suggestions, and I guess I’m just looking for verification before I spend my hard earned dollars.

:wink:

I’ve read and absorbed (as much as I can) a lot of information, including this GREAT post here by another forum member. His room is MUCH bigger and he’s gone to fairly great lengths to address some of the more unique properties of the Magnepan speaker (dipoles). I get a bit lost in the weeds reading some of the more advanced acoustic theory from Art Noxon at ASC but otherwise I found this post VERY helpful.

I’ll try to keep this brief.

My room is small. Pretty much exactly 10 x 12 x 8. There is a window on the front wall and a door adjacent to the back wall. The only thing in this room right now is two listening chairs, a rug, and the speakers and other gear. The walls are bare, and are horsehair lathe & plaster.

I have a new pair of Magnepan 1.7x’s that I fell in love with when I heard them. They are positioned about 32" away from the front wall, 20" from the side walls, and are 48" apart. The tweeters are on the OUTSIDE edge of the panels, which are toed-in a bit so that the tweeter ribbons are aimed at the listening position.

My listening position is @ 24" from the back wall.

The sound is “good” but the room is doing some weird things and I KNOW it can sound better with some well-placed panels. I am new to this and lack the vocabulary and experience to describe how this room sounds. Certain frequencies really come forward and not in a good way.

Again, I’ve read a lot about this and get conflicting information about where best to start. I have a limited budget and want to make good initial decisions that will improve the sound and address some of the issues this room is presenting. I understand small rooms can be more challenging.

Some photos will help here I think!

The people at GIK have been very helpful and I think they make good products at a reasonable cost. They proposed the following design as a start:

This seems like a plausible first step…however I am wondering if I should prioritize addressing bass control in the corners? I’m also unclear on whether I should be focusing on absorption or diffusion, or a combination of both?

GIK offers a pretty wide selection. Some panels focus on absorption. Some focus on diffusion, and some are a hybrid. For example the 244 can be ordered with a scatter plate to provide diffusion. The Impression and Alpha panels have wooden surfaces with various patters in them to provide diffusion/scattering. You can do this with their corner tri-traps too! All of the various options can get a bit overwhelming.

Any advice on the best first step to make would be greatly appreciated.

:grinning_face:

In my 2nd setup, I have LRS+ and some gik room treatments. I have 2 smaller vertical (maroon) panels next to the tv, and 2 panels directly behind my head. I do not have sidewall treatments in the maggie room, but do have sidewall treatment in my main system. The gik panels helped tremendously in the maggie room. I could not listen to music without the gik panels. The sound was just awful before installing the panels.



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Interesting and very minimal! Those look like the 244 panels on your front wall. How would you describe the sound without the panels? You find you don’t have to address bass in the corners?

Are those REL subs?

I have Sanders hybrid 'stats that are also dipoles so you need to consider what happens to the sound energy exiting the back of the speaker.

My first room treatment steps focused on bass trapping which is something you almost can’t overdo to smooth low frequency room response.

However, my corner bass traps sit behind my speakers and I did not want to absorb too much higher frequency energy. GIK makes a nice option called range limiter which intentionally reflects more mid/high frequencies (a desirable feature for dipoles). One consideration for dipoles placed in front of room treatments.

I also highly recommend something like REW (Room EQ Wizard) with a USB mic to measure your system response.

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I actually received my MiniDSP UMIK-1 yesterday! Haven’t had a chance to experiment with REW yet.

Thanks for posting. I knew about the range limiter option but hadn’t even considered that.

The sound without the panels was just horrible. Hard to describe the sound, but without the panels, everything sounded off. Too much echo in the room, that was nicely tamed by the panels so I could listen to music on a 2nd system.

Great speakers. I enjoyed them for 15 years before transitioning to 2.7i.

  1. Make sure your amplifier has plenty of current: If its output doubles from 8 ohms to 4 ohms, you’re good—assuming it has enough wattage so your music and volume preferences aren’t compromised.
  2. Place one 11- or 12-inch diameter ASC Tube Traps behind each Maggie, with the diffusion side facing the speaker. To save money, you only need 3-foot lengths if you place them on low stools. This works because the bottom of the Maggies is wood not spkr.
  3. Maggies need room behind them. Minimum: 3 feet. Better: 4 feet. Temporarily move them farther out to hear the difference.
  4. NO absorption behind Magnepans. Period. Only diffusion.
  5. GIK diffusers at the first reflection points on the side walls are a good idea. Remember, each speaker has two first reflection zones.
  6. Absorption from GIK or others behind your listening position is a good idea.
  7. Padding under the carpet shouldn’t be cheap breathable foam. Use dense underlayment.
  8. Not personally familiar with ceiling clouds, but they might help above the listening seat.
  9. Later, consider speaker cables. I got amazing results with Iconoclast Cable, TPC.

Good luck. You made a good choice with Magneplanars. - Jeffrey in Phila.

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Similar to other comments in this thread with your smaller room and Maggie’s think more diffusion on mids and high frequencies and bass absorption in the corners.

Amp should have plenty of current. Driving the 1.7x’s with a Rogue Audio Cronus Dark.

Do the ASC traps not do any absorption when placed behind the Maggies? Even with the diffusion side facing the speaker?

I am familiar with first reflection points (in concept). How are there two?

Hello boy412,
ASC Tube Traps are widely used by Magneplanar owners. The important point is that w the diffusion side facing the spkr backs, no absorption is facing the spkrs. The non-dispersion side of the Tube Traps does absorb excess energy bouncing off the front wall (or corner depending on the toe-in and closeness of the side walls). You can go to the ASC website for more info. Most of it is designed to be less technical than Art Noxon’s paper

2 reflection points refers to each maggie having a left wall and right wall 1st reflection point. That’s a total of 4 sidewall 1st reflection points from 2 stereo spkrs.

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Wanted to update this thread a bit, since I’ve added some treatments!

I started with two 11” ASC tube traps. These are the 36” versions, and I took the advice of @JASinPhiladelphia and put them on short stools. There is no “speaker” at the bottom 12” of these Magnepans. Still fiddling with placement. Right now they are directly behind the speakers with the diffusion side facing the back of the speaker.

Next I added four GIK 244 panels, two on each side wall. These were built with the optional “scatter plates”:

These made a HUGE difference, even when I had them just leaning against the wall after taking them out of their boxes. The soundstage really snapped into focus.

The latest thing I’ve done is hang three GIK Alpha panels on the back wall, choosing one of their 2D scattering patterns (the 2Da). This was yesterday so I’m still listening to reference material to hear what changes/improvements these have made.

I’m pleased with how they turned out.

I’ve been taking measurements with REW as I add panels so I’ll have data to look at. I’m still a noob at absorbing the REW graphs…there is a LOT of information in there. To my [admittedly inexperienced] ear the room is buzzing a fair bit at certain low frequencies, which is very obvious to me now that the other treatments are in place. Not sure what to do next. I’m considering adding a few more ASC tube traps or possibly some GIK Tri-Traps. The bass is really bugging the crap out of me at the moment.

The tube traps I have…would those be best utilized in the corners? Maybe get a pair of 13’s and stack the 11’s on top?

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Nice! Tube integrated & Magnepan!!

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“Pretty much exactly”?

:rofl:

The bass is really bugging the crap out of me at the moment

Take a serious look at PSI AVAA C214 active bass traps They will eliminate the bass issues especially in a smaller room like yours.

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Make sure you contact @straightwire for a deal on PSI AVAA bass traps!

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I was aware of these but had not considered them due to the cost. However…I would likely spend close to that on the number/size of bass traps needed for this little space. And there are two corners on the back wall I can’t really address with passive traps because of doors.

If I could get away with one C214 that is semi-feasible. In fact there are two for sale right now on USAM if anyone is interested.

~e~

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