I’m intrigued by this one… A couple of years back I perceived a drop in quality any time I turned on the DSP engine, so I never really began to investigate what it could do in my system.
Now that I hear this, I’ll be inclined to play around with the parametric EQ to see if I can fix the 40/80 Hz mode that’s in my room.
This one’s interesting, especially as I’ve been considering non-computer (mac/pi) streamers. I really like HQPlayer’s filtering/upsampling.
My roon core is headless…wonder if I’ll have to do anything using a keyboard for this update? Probably not.
It sure is a wishlist. Roon has never acknowledged any SQ issues, with or without DSP (I myself never experimented any, except for the natural effect that dsp has in sound). Also,.they never agreed to ram playback.
Thanks for confirming. I am watching this thread assume that some of the rumors are fact. Par for the course these days…
It is only a wish list at best.
Not only has Roon never acknowledge its sound quality issues, the typos, word misuse, format, etc. immediately make clear this is a user’s post - not something from Roon.
I only use Roon as my front end interface and I still put up with Squeezelite quirks for the ram buffering before sending on to HQPe just as an endpoint, no changes.
Roon guys are way too busy trying to get the basic graphics and layout working to address what is to me obvious SQ issues.
Wouldn’t SQ probs be on Tidal and/or Qobuz?
Nope, it affects all that flows through Roon. It’s a layer of high frequency grunge that is not there with other players or alternative audio processors like Squeezelite (and variants) when using output buffering. Unfortunately, SL buffering causes or Roon SL-emulation isn’t complete and music will stop, skip, etc. from time to time depending on the size of the buffer.
It’s not as dramatic as some make it out to be but if you’re listening to your gear and not the music it’s noticeable.
I use this as a ‘bridge’ between Roon and HQPe. GitHub - philippe44/LMS-to-uPnP: Integrate UPnP players with LogitechMediaServer
It’s been more impactful than any audiophile switches, most fuses and power cords.
When have you tried Roon Radio? It received a big update with 1.7 and supports now is also working very well with Tidal/Qobuz. And I think it does a great job.
FWIW Roon Radio works great for me. It follows the seed artist / genre and always finds me something new to listen to. You can always give thumbs up or thumbs down to a track or artist to modify the stream more to your liking.
I used Roon 1.6 and 1.7. May give it another shot on 1.8, but with Soundiiz, I can convert the Spotify Radio playlists which I have found to be superior (to Roon), to Tidal or Qobuz - best of both worlds… for me at least.
It is not that Roon Radio did not work well. I just believe Spotify does a better job across all genres when it come to radio functions.
I agree! I’ve discovered so much music with Roon radio!
Roon reference architecture is to use a network attached zone. That eliminates the ability to consistently “play from RAM” as a lot of these devices don’t have enough RAM to hold the whole file. For this reason I don’t think it will ever happen and Roon Labs themselves have gone into detail as to why they believe it provides no benefit. This is because of the way RAAT handles streaming in reference to the DAC clock.
I’d like to learn more about this high frequency grunge. I’m 44, so maybe can’t hear it. Is there a track in Qobuz that would display this well in roon? I hope they keep SQ at the forefront, else I will go somewhere that does. That’s the nature of the game. However, usability is also nice, which is probably keeping me away from further exploration of your GitHub link (I’m a software enineer, and totally get Git).
Since it’s a bit off topic I’m PM you
It’s about roon, where it’s at, where it’s going - seems to be the topic to me. Anyway, thanks in advance!
Sure, but SQ is controversial and Roon Labs has made there recommendation for best sound quality namely separate Core from Endpoint. I’ve done this but realized further gains by using their Squeeze emulation as have many others.
These ‘discussions’ have historically devolved into those demanding proof and measurements. I don’t have a desire to prove anything to anyone nor do I have the gear to make measurements beyond my ear/brain.
It also gets a bit ‘messy’ as Roon Squeeze emulation isn’t the most stable beast in the world nor is the subsequent UPnP bits so it’s not for those that struggle with more than a few variables at once.
My guess is there are a number here who are interested.
It would be great if you would share, but understand if you would prefer not to.
I’m happy to share but will completely ignore anyone who asks for any kind of measurement or proof or tells me it can’t be possible because bit are bits. It’s not religion guys (which I also choose to not participate). If YOU hear the improvement that is ALL that matters, right?!
To preface, I’m a Roon lifer for 4 years now I think. I’ve run it in several configurations with a number of host OSs. In parallel my system hardware has continued to be improved to the point where I have it stable for many years to come. Perhaps my last build.
Roon is hosted by Windows 10 machine. It also hosts UPnPbridge (linked in the diagram) and Foobar for VST support. UPnPbridge behaves like a Squeeze endpoint allowing the use of large output buffers. The output buffers the ‘magic’ part.
Roon with SL-emulation sends the audio flux to UPnPbridge which in turn sends to Foobar for VST processing and then via UPnP to the Pink Faun running the bootable image of HQPe for convolution processing and then of course to the DS.
This allows me to have two zones setup in Roon, one with SL buffers and one without going direct to HQPe as output.
With some extensive tuning on the Windows 10 OS I’ve reduced the latency to just over 1 sec. The output buffer value must be carefully tuned as well otherwise Roon will get completely lost, skipping over a track when I ask it to skip the playing track or the sound will get very stressed and begin to dropout. No harm done but it does require stopping playback in Roon and waiting for the buffer to empty before resuming.
UPnP is not without it’s own ‘issues’. Foobar and shimmed-support for VST is another variable but the value of Room Shaper in my room is undeniable and worth the occasional restart of Foobar to resolve.
I may go back to Roon running on ROCK on a dedicated machine but I like that I can schedule the Windows machine to shutdown at night and power on in the morning to save power and adding another PC is contrary to that goal. I choose to save my power ‘budget’ for keeping the DS, preamp, amp all on all the time except for tube sections.
Hope this inspires someone to explore this path. I think that Roon Labs could include this buffer functionality for a special zone type but I suspect it will be years before they run out of work on the interface and resolving software bugs along with advancing Valence etc. I suspect some of the principles know SQ could be improved but it’s good enough for now for most. At least I hope they’ve experimented some to realize it can be improved. They certainly have the anecdotal evidence from several people that have been crucified on the Roon forum for questioning/suggesting the emperor has no clothes.
Be well
