Searching/Refreshing disc data from Internet


#1

I observed that DMP picks up data from MusicBrainz if the Disc id matches.

So I entered data in MusicBrainz for my discs. But DMP does not picks up the data for my new discs entered newly. Roons picks up those new data though after one day.

So wondering when does DMP refreshes data from MusicBrainz - is it daily/weekly/monthly ?

Regards,

Sourav


#2

Hi Sourav,

While it is true that the DMP uses information from Musicbrainz, it does not interact with it the same way as a streaming service does.

A streaming service looks up new information every time a track is called for (Not quite true but sufficient for this comparison). The DMP only goes to Musicbrainz when a disc has been inserted for the first time.

There is a unique repository of metadata and cover art for CDs for your specific DMP resident on the PS Audio Globalnet server. When a disc is inserted into the DMP, it checks if that disc has been played before, and if it has, it retrieves the information from your data table and sends it to the DMP (again a little simplified). If the disc has not been played before, it searches through a list of places, Musicbrainz included for the associated information and loads it into the data table for your DMP. There is no case whereby it goes back to Musicbrainz once it has completed the research activity for the initial disc insertion.

You do have the ability to manually edit the track and coverart information on the PS Audio Website on the My_PS Playlist page, then the new information will show on the DMP.

Dave


#3

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the inputs. But unfortunately in my case it is not working the way you have described.

Here is what I tried -

  1. Opened a brand new CD from it’s packaging.

  2. With Picard application of MusicBrainz I created the disc id for the same and then meta data through MusicBrainz website.

  3. Waited for 1 day. (Typically I have found any meta data I enter in MusicBrainz is typically accessible form Roon after 1 day. But this may not be needed for every application).

  4. Tried accessing the MetaData from Roon after 1 day. The data is now available from Roon.

  5. Now I first time insert the CD in DMP. But DMP shows no track and no album art found. Even when I tried searching the same from Playlist UI using Barcode it didn’t show up.

Any idea if I am going wrong anywhere ?

Regards,

Sourav


#4

Hi Sourav,

I think your method is great. I have been looking for the best way to get Disc IDs into Musicbrainz. Picard is one of the few ways available, and it would be ideal in terms of sharing new material with the community. I wish everyone would do what you do.

I haven’t worked with it much, but I haven’t found a way to get Disc IDs from SACDs yet. I mean the SACD layer. The DMP gets them, but I can’t see how to get them into Musicbrainz.

Anyway to answer your question, I understand what is going on. We currently have a project ongoing (since the DMP, and a couple of other non-related reasons) to move the My_Playlist webpage a step forward. While the development has been ongoing the Musicbrainz updates are manual. They are only done by the programmer at irregular intervals.

Your post made me query the development status. We brainstormed a potential interim solution for regular updates. It will take a bit of time to determine. I’ll update the result here yet today.

Dave


#5
Sourav Mazumder said Even when I tried searching the same from Playlist UI using Barcode it didn't show up.
When I first got my DMP I assumed that the barcode would be the most reliable way to search. I gave up on this method after multiple attempts failed to locate even one album (some of them did show up when I searched by title, so they were available). In general, I find that searching either by title or by artist (not both!) works best. Has anyone ever had success searching by barcode?

#6

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your comments.

Glad to know that already a project is ongoing to fix these problems. Would be more than happy to help you guys if you need anything related to testing or any other suggestions.

My another request in this front would be ability to do on demand search from MusicBrainz from the PlayList UI - the same way one can do it for Discogs. In general, my suggestions would be to have a long term strategy where user can himself/herself pick and choose the meta data from various online databases. Then the same would be downloaded in the SD card. That way from PS Audi’s side you don’t need to cache/store any data for long term - the Playlist page just enables the user to do the search and selection (or enter/edit meta data wherever needed).

Regarding SACD my experiennce is so far limited to only Hybrid SACD. Ehat I found that in case of Hybrid SACD, DMP computes the disc id using TOC of the redbook layer. Since the same disc id is also used in MusicBrainz and freeDB it should not be difficult to match the same. Example is the Hybrid CD of Captain fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy (barcode - 60249824120).

For pure SACD (like SHM-SACD), I don’t think it would be possible for end users to get the TOC of the SACD as it is only possible to do the same through Play Station, legally. No regular disc drive can get the same. So not sure how one can enter the disc id for the same in MusicBrainz or any other software as they get the discid from the actual disc. So in this case user has to create the meta data manually. Probably P S Audio can write a program using MusicBrinz APIs to update the disc id (I am assuming DMP can read the disc id like Play Station does for SHM-SACD) and metadata of SHM-SACDs to MusicBrainz after the user has entered teh data manually (and gives permission to share it in a public site).

Regards,

Sourav


#7
Sourav Mazumder said My another request in this front would be ability to do on demand search from MusicBrainz from the PlayList UI - the same way one can do it for Discogs. In general, my suggestions would be to have a long term strategy where user can himself/herself pick and choose the meta data from various online databases.
What would the advantage of this be? Let it start with MusicBrainz as it does now and then the user can try another database if needed. Maybe I've just been lucky, but the discs that have been found are all correct. (The majority are not found, but that's another issue mainly affecting classical music listeners.)
Then the same would be downloaded in the SD card. That way from PS Audi's side you don't need to cache/store any data for long term
Easier for PSA in some ways, although the onus would then be on the user to back up his/her SD card frequently. In my system that's a pain because it involves removing the DMP from the rack -- actually, putting it back is the real nuisance since I have to reconnect cables etc. without being able to see what I'm doing. And I have to shut down my laptop in order to remove an SD card safely (a known issue where Win7 refuses to let a card be ejected). So I'd keep the PSA server going.

#8

Has anyone ever had success searching by barcode

[dp] For me, searching by barcode provides the most unimpeachable information. The downside is as you say, they are less prevalent.

Regarding SACD my experiennce is so far limited to only Hybrid SACD. Ehat I found that in case of Hybrid SACD, DMP computes the disc id using TOC of the redbook layer. Since the same disc id is also used in MusicBrainz and freeDB it should not be difficult to match the same. Example is the Hybrid CD of Captain fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy (barcode – 60249824120).

[dp] The SACD layer does not return the same disc ID as the CD layer does. They are two very separate products on the same physical media. So, when you set up the DMP to play SACD it checks for the SACD disc ID, which of course, for the reasons you mention above is not available in the common databases.

Probably P S Audio can write a program using MusicBrinz APIs to update the disc id.

[dp] We went down this path and it lead to a dead end. It would of course be easier than going to Mars, but we could not find a way to get it done short of a congressional mandate.

That way from PS Audi’s side you don’t need to cache/store any data for long term

[dp] We have situations where people like to personalize the metadata/coverart. We don’t want to interfere with the individuals data choices. So, we will need to keep the current system architecture.


#9
Dave P. said [dp] We have situations where people like to personalize the metadata/coverart. We don't want to interfere with the individuals data choices.
This never occurred to me. It is great that the system allows us to express our individual quirks.

#10

We are attempting a replication script at present. It is intended to update once per day at 2AM local time in Boulder.


#11
Elk said

This [changes to metadata/cover art] never occurred to me. It is great that the system allows us to express our individual quirks.


Accommodating individual quirks is nice, but there are more important things here also. I have several discs that whose metadata was located automatically but whose cover art was not found. It’s great that I could add it manually and have it show up when I replay the disc.

#12
magister said
Sourav Mazumder said My another request in this front would be ability to do on demand search from MusicBrainz from the PlayList UI - the same way one can do it for Discogs. In general, my suggestions would be to have a long term strategy where user can himself/herself pick and choose the meta data from various online databases.

What would the advantage of this be? Let it start with MusicBrainz as it does now and then the user can try another database if needed. Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but the discs that have been found are all correct. (The majority are not found, but that’s another issue mainly affecting classical music listeners.)

Then the same would be downloaded in the SD card. That way from PS Audi's side you don't need to cache/store any data for long term

Easier for PSA in some ways, although the onus would then be on the user to back up his/her SD card frequently. In my system that’s a pain because it involves removing the DMP from the rack – actually, putting it back is the real nuisance since I have to reconnect cables etc. without being able to see what I’m doing. And I have to shut down my laptop in order to remove an SD card safely (a known issue where Win7 refuses to let a card be ejected). So I’d keep the PSA server going.


Hi Magister,

Sort of agree with you on both points. I do see too the complexity of backing up the data in SD card.

Regards,

Sourav


#13
Dave P. said

Has anyone ever had success searching by barcode

[dp] For me, searching by barcode provides the most unimpeachable information. The downside is as you say, they are less prevalent.

Regarding SACD my experiennce is so far limited to only Hybrid SACD. Ehat I found that in case of Hybrid SACD, DMP computes the disc id using TOC of the redbook layer. Since the same disc id is also used in MusicBrainz and freeDB it should not be difficult to match the same. Example is the Hybrid CD of Captain fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy (barcode – 60249824120).

[dp] The SACD layer does not return the same disc ID as the CD layer does. They are two very separate products on the same physical media. So, when you set up the DMP to play SACD it checks for the SACD disc ID, which of course, for the reasons you mention above is not available in the common databases.

Probably P S Audio can write a program using MusicBrinz APIs to update the disc id.

[dp] We went down this path and it lead to a dead end. It would of course be easier than going to Mars, but we could not find a way to get it done short of a congressional mandate.

That way from PS Audi’s side you don’t need to cache/store any data for long term

[dp] We have situations where people like to personalize the metadata/coverart. We don’t want to interfere with the individuals data choices. So, we will need to keep the current system architecture.


Hi Dave,

Interesting points.

In my observation, when I first time add a Hybrid CD, DMP could not get the data from online libraries as you mentioned. Then I added the metadata myself going through the Playlist UI and DMP created the txt file in the SD Card. But the disc id in that txt file is same as the disc id of corresponding to the CD layer. According to your explanation DMP should have created the txt file with the id for the SACD layer. But that’s not what is happening in my case.

Regards,

Sourav


#14

Hi, not suggesting that it’s a good solution to remove your unit, but when you do, have you tried using a mirror to hook up cables?

It is sometimes the only way I can get certain cables that are only long enough when the component is in place.


#15

Thank you — that’s a great idea!


#16

Why is it that album art and artist etc is being correctly displayed in the MyPS Playlist environment, but on the DMP there is no album art, and the artist is spelled incorrectly?

Eg Artist = RÜFÜS Title = Bloom. All correct in MyPS Playlist window. On the DMP Artist = RAFAS and no coverart.

And another gripe I have is the limitation on the number of characters displayed in the DMP for artist + title etc. I think I read elsewhere somewhere here that this is an artefact of the OPPO hardware environment interfacing with the PS Audio software environment. If you could at least get the full title to scroll from right to left (like what my Pronto Pro controller does) when text strings don’t fit in the available character space width.

And another gripe I have (not related to the DMP) is the time stamp in the MyPS Playlist is wrong by +1 hour. My time zone is correctly set at UTC+8, but the actual time being shown is UTC+9. Like it’s trying to be clever by applying a summer daylight saving time adjustment when we don’t have daylight saving in this part of the world.


#17
brodricj said Eg Artist = RÜFÜS Title = Bloom. All correct in MyPS Playlist window. On the DMP Artist = RAFAS and no coverart.
The DMP and the Playlist both have problems with non-English characters. On the screen, a capital A is a frequent substitute; 'Prélude' in one of my files comes out as 'PrAlude.' The playlist is a little better than the screen but even here I get substitutions sometimes. I carefully entered 'Dvořák' in an album title and it looked fine, but when I came back to the Playlist the next day it was 'Dvo?ák' -- kept the a-acute but didn't like the r-caron. I have raised this issue before but those of us who believe in spelling things correctly are a minority.
If you could at least get the full title to scroll from right to left (like what my Pronto Pro controller does) when text strings don't fit in the available character space width.
This would be OK if the scrolling stops after the title has shown once. I find continuously scrolling text unsettling for some reason.

#18

How do I fix this problem then…

RÜFÜS Atlas Light/Dark deluxe edition is a 2CD set. CD1 is “Light”, CD2 is “Dark”. I load CD1 in the DMP and it populates the MyPS Playlist with coverart after I enter the bar code. I then load CD2 and it auto-identifies in the MyPS Playlist as Rüfüs Atlas but with no coverart. In the tracklist browser window I can only see the first 6 track titles and nothing after. When I put CD1 in the DMP I want the MyPS Playlist to identify it as RÜFÜS Atlas Light and when I put CD2 in the DMP I want the MyPS Playlist to identify it as RÜFÜS Atlas Dark.

Coming from the Kaleidescape environment which I’m more used to, where everything works as expected, I’m finding the cataloging of CD content in the MyPS environment as quite troublesome.


#19
magister said
brodricj said If you could at least get the full title to scroll from right to left (like what my Pronto Pro controller does) when text strings don't fit in the available character space width.
This would be OK if the scrolling stops after the title has shown once. I find continuously scrolling text unsettling for some reason.
Pronto will scroll the title and then pause for a while, then it will scroll again.

#20
brodricj said

When I put CD1 in the DMP I want the MyPS Playlist to identify it as RÜFÜS Atlas Light and when I put CD2 in the DMP I want the MyPS Playlist to identify it as RÜFÜS Atlas Dark.


I would try making two separate entries in the Playlist. Keep the first one (Light) which I take it is correct, but change the album title to “Atlas - Light” or something. Then manually add another entry for “Atlas - Dark” where you will be able to add the cover art and edit the track listings if needed.
I'm finding the cataloging of CD content in the MyPS environment as quite troublesome.
There are a number of issues with the playlist. PSA says they are working on some improvements; see the comments from Dave P. earlier in this thread.