…said the horn player…
Nmcleod - I was responding to Rudolph, who seemingly took your earlier post as finding it difficult, and it sorta read that way. So this was by way of mentioning to Rudolph that you later posted that you hadn’t actually had difficulty with it.
No more no less.
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That’s interesting because the m1200 manual states: “changing the tubes is easy . . .changing to a different 12AU7 tube can result in a sound that is more to one’s preference and allows the opportunity to optimize the system’s synergy”. I guess it just comes down to preference.
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Craig here… I’m in my 10th day of listening to my M1200s and I’ve already packed up my old M700s because there is no way I’m not keeping the 1200s. One of my early posts says the M1200s are in another league and they are. They just sing to me and I have to be dragged away from enjoying them. My kit is posted in post 48 above.
Concerning tube access, I posted my experiences of pulling and replacing in post 53 above.
I’ll expand on that since it’s become a talking point, even among those that don’t have M1200s in their kit. I wanted to have the experience of swapping tubes, even before I fired up the amps. The tube is horizontal in a little ventilated compartment in the left rear of the amp. The is a door on the back side held on by two screws. The left, rear side panel is perforated with about 4 inches of venting next to the tube. I was asked if tube glow came through the vents, I didn’t see any and I don’t detect any excess heat. I feel the tube location is well ventilated. The tube was well seated into the socket and took a bit of the usual rocking to remove it. As I posted in 67 (I think) latex/nitrile gloves can help on dry fingers. Slight rocking also helped reinsert the tube. I feel the tube socket is firmly mounted. It appears to be on a steel L bracket. On reinserting, it does help if you initially peer in the side vents to properly align the pins. It was easy to see the socket and easy to firmly insert the tube all the way.
Given all that, I did order a tube puller from the PSA website since I think it will make the job easier. I am evaluating the amps with the stock tubes since that is the way they are designed/voiced, but, after the beta I plan to try a couple sets of NOS tubes I have just to see how they sound in my system. Given that Darren has bypassed the ICE module’s input stage with his 12AU7 input stage, I’ll bet that rolling that input stage might have significant effects. One way of looking at it, is that the ICE module is ‘playing’ the tube input stage.
Thanks, Craig
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Oh absolutely. We take all feedback like this very seriously and is why these beta tests are SO helpful for us.
By no means do I want my last post to seem like we’re completely writing this off.
If it simply wasn’t safe or was bad to roll tubes, we would have stated the warranty is void if non factory tubes are installed. That is of course not the case and rolling tubes is fine, we just aren’t encouraging it.
We are riding a pretty fine line here. If you make it impossible to change the tubes, then what happens when the old ones go bad? If you make is excessively easy to swap them and encourage rolling, it gives off this idea that what you get in the M1200s out of the box is somehow not quite perfect and could be better. That of course is not the case. Though they’ll need a bit of burn-in, hooking these puppies up right out of the box is a stunning experience!!! The manual is correct and swapping out different tubes can help to bring synergy to the system. However, I firmly think for most, the stock tubes will accomplish this.
If we come out the gate and say “hey, we recommend rolling tubes with these amps,” as a consumer, I would think “oh, these amps could be made better.” I don’t think this is the case. They can be made different, and maybe that different is better for your system.
I really hope everyone can understand where we’re coming from.
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Makes perfect sense to me. And I have to agree, the stock tubes are killer. This was not my experience with the Prologue 4. I wasn’t all that impressed with the stock tubes. They provided the tube like warmth but removed much of the detail I was getting from my NAD C362. I discussed this with someone who had a lot of experience with the Prologue 4 and had determined the tube complement he though sounded best and would give back the detail. So I got a set of those tubes and sure enough, I was thoroughly pleased with the result. The downside? This set of tubes cost 1/3 of what the amp did. If that had been the case with the M1200s I would have returned them immediately. Thankfully that wasn’t the case.
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10-4.
The early returns sure sound like you guys have cooked up another winner.
Best regards.
I have posted three times (#77,78,100) and in #100 I said that would probably be my last one. Wrong. I couldn’t resist posting again after today’s listening session. The M1200’s are drawing me in more and more. They sound so effortless, and yet at the same time so compelling. I never really fully felt that my rig was totally “letting go of the music” like so many high end magazine reviewers describe. Well, the M1200’s have done it. They have a totally relaxed presentation, along with all the other high end accolades that are ascribed to Class A gear, as I describe below.
Ryuichi Sakamoto CD: Neo Geo; “Risky”, “Free Trading”
Inner detail and ambience retrieval is bringing out the life of recordings and a effortless reach-in quality beyond what my all tube Wolcott Audio amps deliver, and up to this point they have been the best I’ve ever heard with my Soundlab Electrostatics. Electrostatic speakers are famous for the tough loads presented to amplifiers. A challenging combination of resistance, capacitance, and inductance. Depending on tube selection (mine are equipped with eight EL34 tubes per side), Wolcott Amps generate 200-290 watts. They are a famous cult amplifier for electrostatics, and they were given a class A nod by Dick Olsher some years ago. Before the Wolcott’s, I tried a bunch of amps, both solid state and tubed. The biggest Bryston’s. The big Cary’s, and others. None of them could drive the Soundlab electrostatics.
Bottom line, the M1200’s have bettered the Wolcott’s in every category. Timbral Accuracy. Dynamics (both micro and macro). Bass (both weight and texture). Imaging. Soundstaging. Inner detail and ambience retrieval. What’s left? Oh yeah, pace… they have ebb and flow that pulls you in and won’t let go. Toe tapping, head nodding rhythmic drive. Exciting.
Mitch Watkins CD: Hum Head; “Big Surf”
Piano and drums and Mitch’s lyrically intoxicating work on the legendary Michael Stevens LJ semi hollow body electric are so timbrally accurate, that it is as if one is the recording studio with them. Drums are crisp and punchy and the backbeats are so easy to follow and powerfully moving that it compels one to join in on imaginary air drums!! Powerful.
Mel Torme SACD: The London Sessions. This is a 1977 Olympic Sound, UK, recording of jazz standards re-released as a Steve Hoffman/Kevin Gray DSD mastered SACD. It is a superb recording of a superb performance from “the velvet fog” backed real-time by a full orchestra. Mel’s voice is like butter melting among the instruments, which are in full detail but do not obscure Mel’s articulate sibilants nor his emotional phrasing. Mel never received the accolades of a Sinatra or Bennett, but this recording is as emotive as anything old blue eyes ever did.
Mel left us almost 21 years ago, but the M1200’s brought him to life in my listening room …complete with goosebumps. His tone. The studio ambience. The saxophone’s attack and decay. The bass texture. Velvet fog indeed. if you like great masterpieces such as “ Yesterday When I Was Young”, and “Send In The Clowns”, you won’t be disappointed with this SACD, especially with the M1200’s extracting every nuance and feeling from the performance. Bravo!
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I have to get that Mel Torme SACD.
This is going to be a bit long winded, so maybe more than long-winded, bear with me.
My system for the M1200 evaluation is as follows:
Speakers – GR-Research full range open baffle NX-Otica monitor/sub combo
Preamp/DAC – PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC
OPPO 105
Dedicated music server – Xeon based PC with an SOtM USB sound card (powered by an external SOtM linear power supply) running Fidelizer 8 Pro in audiophile mode, ROON, and JRiver 25
Streaming – Qobuz via music server
Power conditioning – PS Audio P500, PI Audio Group Uber BUSSes, PI Audio Group Digi BUSS
Cabling – AudioQuest Carbon USB cable, Douglas Connection Bravo XLR and RCA interconnects
As a refresher, here are some pics of the system: I didn’t listen to the turntable for this evluation as I don’t have a phono pre in the house right now.
General observations/impressions
It’s important for putting my observations/impressions of the M1200s in proper context to know that these are the most expensive amps I have ever had in my system. Before the M1200s, the most expensive amps I’ve had are the M700s and a PrimaLuna Prologue 4 with a full complement of NOS tubes ($2,200 for the amp + $800 for the tubes). Which means the M1200s are twice as expensive as anything else I’ve had. Any time I make a comparison, it’s to establish a frame of reference, not to denigrate any other piece of equipment. To give a little more perspective, I custom build speakers as a sideline and for the past five years have exhibited at the Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas, TX. I would never use any piece of equipment that did not showcase my speakers in a positive light. For the past two years I’ve had some PS Audio equipment fronting my speakers. Two years ago, it was the Stellar Gain Cell DAC driving the Prologue 4. Last year it was the Stellar Gain Cell DAC driving the Stellar S300. This year was going to be the GCD and M700s but if we get to hold the show it will be the M1200s. BTW, PS Audio did not sponsor my rooms. I don’t think they even knew the Lone Star Audio Fest existed as it is a small regional show, know me from Adam, or that I was using their gear in my room.
I listened to music from many different genres including, acoustic, Avant guard, blues, classical, opera, pop, rock, jazz, soundtracks, new age, Celtic, live concerts on Blu-ray, world, easy listening, A Capella, etc. Artists included Jennifer Warrens, Keb’ Mo’, Gordon Lightfoot, Simon and Garfunkel, Creedence Clearwater Revival (CCR), Stepenwolf, Three Dog Night, Chicago, The Eagles, Enya, Clannad, Clan an Drumma, The Chieftens, Queen, Buddy Holly, Miles Davis, Chuck Mangione, Holly Cole, Nils Lofgren,the Latin Jazz Trio, Phil Collins, Chris Botti, Josh Groban, Dean Martin, Nat King Cole, Hilary Hahn, Joshua Bell, Jonas Kaufmann, the Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, the San Francisco Symphany, Anna Netrebko, Dmitri Hvorostovsky, Andrea Bocelli, Barbara Streisand, Adele, the Carpenters, Pentatonix, Home Free, and others that I forgot to write down. I’d often find myself getting caught up in the music and forgetting to take notes.
I can’t make any observations on the low bass performance of the M1200s as my speakers cross to the subwoofer section at 80Hz. So, my observations are limited to midbass on up. Also, my hearing is such that I have issues understanding something when there are a lot of other sounds going on around it. This makes things like vocals, bass lines, and softer backing vocals / instruments difficult to understand/pick out especially with compressed recordings.
With that framework in mind, here are my general thoughts/observations/impressions to date. With the M1200s, clarity, detail, soundstage, imaging, PRAT, and musicality are all superb. The soundstage is wide, deep, and high. Highs are clear, clean, smooth, extended, airy and ethereal when the music dictates yet forceful and punchy when called for. Background instruments and vocals can be heard and appreciated for their individual contribution.
Midbass through midrange is full (has more meat on the bones as folks like to say) and there are no sharp edges (like a higher pitched cracking sound) with really high dynamic passages like in first movement of Mahler’s 3rd or the cannon shots in the Telarc recording of the 1812 Overture. With all my other amps, even the M700s, the whoomph WHOOMPH!! in the 1st movement of Mahler’s 3rd and the cannon shots in the 1812 overture have a sharp trailing edge. The cannon shots especially have a higher pitched crack at the end of the shot. Cannons don’t sound like that and as a veteran Army Field Artillery officer I have a fair bit of experience with what cannons sound like. The M1200s sound more right.
Bass lines are clear and easy to pick out. The blend with the subwoofers is smooth and coherent. The fuller midrange, upper, and mid bass make for the smoothest integration with the sub section I have heard. Which is saying a lot because you couldn’t hear the crossover point as it was. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the added body of the midbass to lower midrange is an even better match with the subs.
Power differences can’t be the only or even the main factor in the sound differences. My speakers are 94.5dB efficient and cross to the sub section at 80Hz. I have a relatively small room at 12’x14’x8’ and the loudest I like to listen is crescendos in the mid to upper 80dB range. This means at most I’m using 1 watt. If power was the determining factor, there wouldn’t be much of a difference between the S300, M700, and M1200 as the S300 has 135 times the power I need (my speakers are 8 ohm).
At low listening levels, 45-55dB with peaks in the low 60s, the M1200s have superior performance. With any speaker there is a point where the sound recedes and is muted, especially with vocals. 0.5dB above this point and the sound is full sized, not muted, and snaps into place. The actual point where this occurs varies from track to track but the pattern is the same. With all the amps I have used over the past three years with these speakers, that point is often too loud to be considered quiet listening (my wife still tells me to turn it down, she’s trying to sleep). With the M1200s, this point is significantly quieter, now late at night 45-50dB actually sounds loud. I keep expecting her to tell me to turn it down but that hasn’t happened. She no longer tells me to put my headphones on. I don’t know how the M1200s are doing this but I like it.
Now for some specifics. My general impressions hold for all the tracks I’ll be discussing. I’ll be concentrating on things that stand out as better than I’m used to.
“Way Down Deep”, Jennifer Warrens, The Hunter – There are a lot of little details going on in the background. A shaker and Gourd rattle on opposite sides of the stage. You can clearly hear the difference between the two as well as the grains of the shaker. The shaker has a clean tshc-tsch-tsch sound that a shaker makes when it is in your hand as opposed to the swish-swihs-swish a shaker usually sounds like in a less detailed presentation. Cymbal crashes and decays sound natural. The drum has a solid attack and a long, natural decay. It sounds very much like my large Native American hand drum when struck sharply and allowed to decay naturally. Backing vocals are clear and easily heard. Main vocals are controlled, balanced, and smooth. This is true throughout the dynamic range of the recording.
“For What it’s Worth”, Keb’ Mo’, Back by Popular Demand – The hi-hat is clean and natural both closed and open. Bass is tight and catchy. Vocals are solid.
“Early Morning Rain”, Gordon Lightfoot, Complete Greatest Hits – acoustic guitar is very clean and clear. The bass line is easy to pick out and follow. With the vocals the high notes are not sharp or edgy.
“The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald”, Gordon Lightfoot, Complete Greatest Hits – The background hi-hat is again clear and distinct.
“Hotel California”, The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over – The soundstage is large. The audience reactions can be heard coming from all directions including height. The shaker is clean and clear enough to tell that it is playing a syncopated beat. There is no wondering if that is a wood block in the background.
“The Sound of Silence”, Simon & Garfunkel, Greatest Hits – vibrato in the vocals is easily heard.
“The Boxer”, Simon & Garfunkel, Greatest Hits – can hear a slight sibilance on “S” sounds in the vocals. The kazoo plays deeper that I have heard before.
“Proud Mary”, CCR (Creedence Clearwater Revival for those too young to know who CCR is), Chronical: 20 Greatest Hits – This is a real toe tapper. You can easily distinguish the hits of the quick drum roll in the beginning and the hi-hat. Dynamics are compressed (read all loud) and the sound stage is two dimensional with everything bunched together in the center. That’s to be expected with a lot of ‘70s rock recordings though. OK, I ended up listening to the whole album and not taking any more notes, it was that much fun. This then extended to Steppenwolf The Millennium Collection, Three Dog Night The Millennium Collection, and Uriah Heep Demons and Wizards. As much as I like complicated, detailed, and nuanced music I still like to kick back and enjoy the popular music from when I was in high school. If these don’t get your toes tapping, somethings wrong.
Let’s switch to classical:
Hilary Hahn, J.S. Bach: Violin Concertos, Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, Violin Concerto No. 2 in E Major: Allegro – Detailed and expansive sound stage. Not only can you tell the soloist is front left, the double basses are front right, percussion is mostly rear left, etc. you can tell who’s in front of who, i.e. the violins are behind the soloist but in front of the flutes who are in front of the brass. The detail is so clean you can hear the individual notes of the double basses runs. With other good amps like the M700s you could also here the individual notes of the runs but they were softer and less distinct. I hope this analogy is understandable. It will be to brass and woodwind players but hopefully everyone else will get the idea. With other amps, the notes of the bass runs sound like they have a soft attack (du-du-du-du). With the M1200s you can hear that they actually have a hard attack (tu-tu-tu-tu). The solo violin is smooth and sweet, even in the upper registers.
Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overature, Telarc, Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra. This recording also has the Kiev Symphony Chorus and the Children’s Choir of Greater Cincinnati. The dynamics of this recording go from a whisper of voices to the dramatic cannon shots. The M1200s handle every nuance of the dynamic range with aplomb. The softest spots are audible while the dynamic peaks are controlled, smooth, and effortless. The oboes are sweet and clear. Usually I can’t pick out the oboes. They are too delicate and blend in with the other instruments.
Mahler’s 3rd and the final movement of Mahler’s 8th by the San Francisco Symphony were gorgeous is about the bets way I can put it. I started the 3rd intending to listen to only the first movement but an hour later I was still listening. The final movement of the Mahler’s 8th is a real test. From the whispery ethereal vocals to the dynamic peaks, this piece shows off what a system does well and it shows warts too. The M1200s handled this piece with both delicate deftness and dynamic punch.
Colorature by Marie-Eve Munger and Louise-Andree Baril. If there is any sharpness, brightness, or brittleness, high forceful soprano opera will reveal it. With the M1200s there wasn’t even a hint of it even on the highest most powerful notes.
Other sopranos, Sarah Brightman and Anna Netrebko faired just as well. Lest you think the M1200s are only good with high notes they were just as flattering with tenors Josh Groban, Andrea Bocelli, and Jonas Kaufmann; baritone Dmitri Hvorostovsky, and basses Avi Kaplan and Tim Foust. Female vocals, check! Male vocals, check! And speaking of vocals, you gotta listen to Pentatonix and Home Free, both A Capella groups, phenomenal.
My notes keep going on but you get the idea. The M1200s are the best sounding amps I’ve ever had in my system. They check off every box I can think of. Detail, clarity, punch, fun, huge soundstage, musicality, precision, body, smooth yet edgy when the recording calls for it, engaging (did I mention I got lost in the music more than once?), and oh yeah, fun. Even 70’s rock sounds good. Are they better then the M700s? By a lot. Are they worth double the price? I can’t answer that for anybody else but me. To me they are. Even if you think they’re worth it. You still have to ask yourself if you’re will to pay that much. For me, the answer is yes. I’m keeping them and they will be driving my speakers at this year’s Lone Star Audio Fest.
The problem for me? The M1200s have made such a difference in my system, I want to upgrade my DAC and preamp to a Direct Stream Sr. with Network Bridge and a BHK pre.
Mike
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My uninvited advice: Go for the DS Sr., first. Short of my speakers, the Sr. is the most impactful addition to my system thus far.
Cheers.
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@scotte1 what did you upgrade from on the digital side?
Thanks for the review. You and a few others are enticing me to upgrade, yet again, lol.
I had a SGCD feeding M700 monoblocks but moved up to the BHK Signature Preamp feeding the M700’s.
After connecting the BHK Pre, it took less than 10 seconds and I knew I was sending back the SGCD and keeping the BHK. Even though the SGCD sounded clean and musical, and is voiced to sound tube-like, the BHK completely opened everything up in my system. Sweet, musical, flowing, soft and delicate at times, dynamic and impactful at other times.
Me too and I’m staying with my M700’s/DSD Sr… Maybe next year I’ll look at the M1200’s. From all the glowing review’s, Darren & his team have outdone themselves.
As far as rolling Tubes. I’ve never owned anything with Tubes and I’ve heard many Tube systems good and bad. But those have been all Tube amps. Not Hybrids like the M1200’s or the McIntosh MA252 Integrated. So maybe that’s why I‘m biased (pun intended) towards the sound of Transistors at this time. $6000 is a lot of money for me. Ideally, in my setup, if I could afford it (NOT). I’d keep my three M700’s (for Center & Surround duties) and just add the M1200’s for the Front Left & Right Channels.
Now where’s that Lottery ticket 
Hi Paul
Yes,perfect sense.It seems too much has been made of the need for a Tube puller!Perhaps,some may find getting hold of a tube for the first time a bit daunting?? Perhaps , it maybe that some feel that tubes are fragile. Well,of course they are but (if you drop them on a hard surface)but my experience , when you’ve changed a tube once you get more confident with them.I remember changing tubes for the first time on one of Allnic Audio’s products .They have a ‘floating’ tube socket ! I bought a ‘tube puller’ at the time which resembled a medieval tooth extractor !!( I never used it!!)
If as you say Paul, you can get your hands on the tube, then extraction should not be a problem!
Denon DVD-2900 Universal player to PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MK II to PS Audio Direct Stream…
Most of my listening now is home-network streaming via JRiver Media Center (I ripped my CDs to, and keep downloaded files, on my iMac). The iMac is on a different floor of the house and feeds the big rig over Wi-Fi via a router and Ethernet/Bridge II Ethernet card. I also listen to a lot of music via Qobuz and Tidal piggy backed onto Roon.
FWIW, to my ears, JRMC and JRemote seems to consistently “outplay” Roon-Qobuz/Tidal overall. But on a track-by-track basis, it can be a toss up at times.
What does your “digital side” consists of?
Cheers.
Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD “play anything under the Sun” player, with the machine performing d/a conversion. It does play dvd-audio and SACD discs plus cd, cd/r, cd/rw. It also plays DSD, AIFF, FLAC and WAV audio, plus multiple video file formats, plus Blu-ray & DVD. I do not have a dedicated audio-only digital source or dac.
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I am willing to bet the SACD’s can sound pretty darn good on that Pioneer spinner.
I still use the Denon (I have bought several of these units used over the years) to play CD’s and SACD’s in my work office system and to serve as a transport for the PSA DirectStream in the “big rig” at home on occasion.
If you get a chance to Demo the DirectStream DAC using your Pioneer as a transport, don’t do it unless you are ready to write the check. 
I believe it really is that good.
Stay safe/be well.
April 20
scotte1:
Denon DVD-2900 Universal player
Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD “play anything under the Sun” player, with the machine performing d/a conversion. It does play dvd-audio and SACD discs plus cd, cd/r, cd/rw. It also plays DSD, AIFF, FLAC and WAV audio, plus multiple video file formats, plus Blu-ray & DVD. I do not have a dedicated audio-only digital source or dac.
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I have the Pioneer Elite BDP-52FD in my HT system, it has served me well over the years, I also play my 5.1 Audio in this system.
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First I am not a Beta Tester. I offered to be one but was not chosen. No problem. I am still entitled – as is anyone – to an opinion or a question about a product I am considering buying. In my own case I have already placed an order for the 1200s.
If there are difficulties in replacing the tubes on the 1200s that should be addressed. Contrary to what others have written this is NOT an issue only for “tube rollers.”
Tubes wear out. James has told me I might expect to need to replace mine every 3-4 years. That makes it an issue for every owner.
James has told me in email correspondence that it is not difficult to replace the tubes. However I would like to hear from any Beta testers who have tried to do so. In particular I would like to hear from those – like me – with little or no previous experience changing tubes.
What is “no problem” to one person may be quite problematic to others. I am not posing an abstract question here. Again I am purchasing the 1200s. If I find I can’t replace the tubes myself – when the time comes – my warranty will have expired. My only choice will be to pay to ship them back to PS Audio and pay PS Audio to change the tubes for me. If that is the most likely variant I will have difficulty justifying the purchase and I may have to reconsider it.
That’s why I’d like to hear from others now. Alternatively a clear demonstration video – for this specific product, not for changing tubes in general – would be appreciated,
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