Sub with planars

Hi all. So after sorting out issues around phase with my sub…. I wanted to talk a bit about this journey. I have this panel purist mentality so I fight the idea of a sub …but…

I have Maggie 20.7 + Pass labs x260.8s + Cary slp98p. The room I have them in is 17x30. It’s a pretty dead room. The Maggie’s sound great on their own - but for whatever reason I started thinking about these cool Rel subs. Well - I had a Martin Logan Descent just laying around - and I had tried it before and it just seemed to muddy up the mids a bit. The Mags seemed to lose some of their magic. At the time I had a different amp and I had the speakers on the short wall. The x260.8s are simply liquid. I love them.

Fast forward to today - and I moved the speakers on the long wall / new amps (there is a double door opening to a bar room which is about 12x15 right behind the listening position which can be open or closed - I keep them open)… and I lugged out these 20’ subwoofer interconnects. I was using 5’ AQ king cobras on it before off the second set of outputs from the Cary. I placed the sub about a foot off the back wall and about 5’ from the corner to the left of my speaker.

I tried a louder level than needed -of course - initially but then moved the volume level down from 5 to 3… had phase set to 180 as my Cary pushes an out of phase signal and set the x-over to 40hz.

The results are spectacular quite frankly. I can’t find the sub… my speakers have disappeared now completely. And the contrasts that it seems to add for the mids and high end is fantastic. I find it interesting how a sub can seem to improve the other frequencies. I seem to be hearing more nuance. Everything that sounded great sounds greater now. I feel dirty and ashamed for adding the sub - but I can’t argue with the results. :grinning:

The ML Descent has 3 active woofers in front and on about 30 degree angles along the sides. It is meant to play w stats and is a very musical sub. This is like a free upgrade. I like free.


With a great integration of a sub with planars, you achieved something rare!

I agree. I know guys prob think I can’t hear lol. But I’ve tried this several times and each time I felt there was this snap missing from the panel. Couple things different this time…

1 pass labs x260.8 monos. They bring more bass to the panel than my prior amp. Which allows me to play the sub at a lower level maybe?? Or just aids in the integration.
2 I was using 5’ AQ King cobras … well pulling out my 20’ sub cables (not as good as AQ) allowed me to place the sub anywhere. And I think we landed in a good spot. This was an ‘awe hell I might as well try these’ - they are sub cables - but a cheaper brand.
3 Complete room rearrangement from prior approaches. In this arrangement - the sub gets a little support being only 1’ off the front wall and 5’ off the corner. Before it was pretty much floating between the speakers about 10’ off front wall.

I had 20.7s with two Rel Carbon ltd.subs.right next to each panel. They integrated.seamlessly. Highly recommend doubling down and get 2 subs. You will not regret the decision.


I agree with @minnesotafats without a doubt! My speakers demand subs. Two Rel NO. 25’s with my ML CLX speakers thanks to @minnesotafats. Some day I’ll get 4 more.


Hmmm. My brother has an ML descent he is not using…. I wonder???
They can be daisy chained. I can’t think of another way to do it with them. I know the Rels hook directly to the amp

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A single cable between the two subs is ML’s recommended method.

Absolutely agree on adding another sub. The science backs it. It’s more than just the additional output.
The added positioning allows to further tune the room and null nasty standing waves. It’s the heart to long term listening.


The magic is the hi level connection on the Rel subs it’s makes the bass seamless with the speakers. With 20.7’s I recommend the best subs your budget allows the difference they make is shocking.