Substitute for Bridge

magister said
erikm said Auralic Aries.

I’m curious about why you recommend this. The Aries has wifi, which may be important for some but not if you’ve already got a wired network. It also offers XLR outputs. If you want anything over 24/192, you are locked into using USB output. But the Rendu offers i2s output, including double DSD support, which would seem to be an excellent match for the PWD/DS. No one can compare the SQ yet, so we’ll have to wait for that. (The Aries has not shipped, as far as I can tell.)


Aries will output PCM up to 24/192 from the Spdif’s DSD is only from the USB. I don’t know if the Rendu will output DSD from the i2s. The reason I’d rather have a Aries… It’s a more “finished product”

Aries has shipped. Sonore-Rendu-Billet-Face.pngauralic-aries-2.jpg

rogerdn said I still had eLyric 2.1.1 on my iPad so tried it with my Bridge/Synology, it's only been a short time but working fine so far. So what additional features would I get if I install Minim Server......
1) Unllike EMM, MinimServer is actively supported by its developer, Simon. He is very responsive to support questions and requests for new features.
  1. The main thing that sets Minim apart from the competition is the flexibility it gives you in indexing files and displaying the tags as you wish. This is perhaps most important to fans of classical and jazz, but may be useful for others as well. Just to give one example: I have separate artist and conductor tags. I have Minim set so that when a control point requests the artist, it shows the artist and the conductor, so I get something like “London Symphony Orchestra - Goosens”. If you keep your composer/conductor/artist tags as “lastname, firstname” you can show as “firstname lastname” in the display but still have them indexed by last name. There are many other refinements you can make–I’ve barely scratched the surface. See the Minim manual online; it is very complete.

  2. Minim supports single and double rate DSD via DoP; I can’t remember if EMM supports DSD, but I think not. It will also transcode files on the fly. I have it set to transcode my FLAC files (both 16 and 24 bit) to 24-bit WAV, which sounds better in my system. (Some people hear no difference; this does seem to be system-dependent.)

  3. The MinimStreamer add-in supports internet radio. I enjoy having my favorite stations displayed (as a playlist) in the same app as my local music files, with no need for a seprate internet radio app.

  4. You can run from a NAS as well as from a Win or Mac computer; no need for the big computer to run all the time in order to access music. This appeals to me. YMMV.

  5. Much more, see the manual. And it’s donationware, so no risk to try.

erikm said
I don't know if the Rendu will output DSD from the i2s.
According to the Sonore website, it does.
Aries has shipped.
I went to the Auraliac website and could find no list of dealers/distributors, no information about how to buy it . . . the original date was June 30, so I assume they are late. Otherwise they really need to fix their website.

The Aries is more finished in terms of appearance, but I don’t care about that much (in fact, the Aries is almost too space-age for my taste). But I am interested in the potential sonic benefits of the i2s interface. Can’t prove that this is better, of course, but seems like a good possibility for those who own PSA gear.

kellipah said

I have a Macintosh MA-7000 amplifier, and have run cables from the DS to both the CD input and the DVD input, both with RCA cables and XLR cables.


This is not the best practice, which we can get into when you have things working. :slight_smile: For now, pick one or the other.

My colleagues have done a great job with suggestions. Their advice should get you up and running.

magister said
erikm said
I don't know if the Rendu will output DSD from the i2s.

According to the Sonore website, it does.

Aries has shipped.

I went to the Auraliac website and could find no list of dealers/distributors, no information about how to buy it . . . the original date was June 30, so I assume they are late. Otherwise they really need to fix their website.

The Aries is more finished in terms of appearance, but I don’t care about that much (in fact, the Aries is almost too space-age for my taste). But I am interested in the potential sonic benefits of the i2s interface. Can’t prove that this is better, of course, but seems like a good possibility for those who own PSA gear.


Try here

http://www.auralic.com/storelocator.html

erikm,

Thanks for the advice. It sounds promising and i will try it tomorrow and report, hopefully, good news.

erik m and elk,

Well, no luck for me yet. I have a Straight Wire Mega-Link 2 coax cable attached to my Sonos Connect and running to the input coax of the DS.

I have RCA cables from the DS output going to the input for CD2 in the McIntosh amp.

I changed my Sonos Connect to fixed volume.

I made sure the DS was at 100% volume and was on the coax setting. The little green dot is visible.

No sound yet. I am a a loss.

Any advice?

Thanks.

kellipah said erik m and elk,

Well, no luck for me yet. I have a Straight Wire Mega-Link 2 coax cable attached to my Sonos Connect and running to the input coax of the DS.

I have RCA cables from the DS output going to the input for CD2 in the McIntosh amp.

I changed my Sonos Connect to fixed volume.

I made sure the DS was at 100% volume and was on the coax setting. The little green dot is visible.

No sound yet. I am a a loss.

Any advice?

Thanks.


On the DS screen is the sample rate and number of bits correct?

Is the unmute indicator (lower left) green? (Even if it is you might mute it and unmute it once to see if it changes and perhaps resets the mute relays.)

You might also run the bit perfect test: How to run a bit perfect test with DirectStream

kellipah

Try with the Sonos variable vol in case it makes a difference.

you could also try the optical connection, if you have a cable.

Although a digital coax cable might give the best results, try any cheap RCA that you may have.

A step by step elimination process should get you going. mine works fine.

Also, pls cfm you are on firmware 6115 on the DS.

kellipah… if you’re getting a green light on the DS then the Sonos is sending a digital stream… Also if it’s a stock Sonos you should see the sample and bit rate 16/44 on the DS display… any chance you have the Sonos muted? any chance you have the DS or the Mac muted? Make sure the DS is set on high level… Also if you pull the coax out the green light goes out and when connected you get the light ?

You could also try using the CD1 input… And make sure you don’t have REC engaged… and it seems from your owners manual that output 1 also needs to be on.

And if you have several Sonos units make sure you’re not playing music in a different zone, thinking that you’re playing music on the zone player hooked up to the DS… I’ve done that before… the DS will show a green light cause it getting a lock but there’d be no music cause you’re playing it in a different room/zone

Last if you hook the analog outputs of the Sonos to the Mac does it play?

Hi all.

I am more perplexed than ever. The following good ideas all produced no results:

Changing the bit rate and sampling to all possible combinations.

Muting and un-muting the DS, toggling between the green and red bars in the bottom corner of the DS.

Putting Sonos back to variable volume, then fixed again.

A cheap RCA cable and even trying an optical cable I found lying about.

I added back a direct cable from the Sonos to the amp and it is playing fine. So the Sonos is sending a stream, the DS is just not picking it up.

I downloaded firmware update 6115 and stuck it in the DS. The PS Audio logo never blinks or says it updating, it just goes straight to initializing, then back to show i am in coaxial or optical, whichever one I was trying to get to work last.

This is odd, when I pull the coaxial or the optical cord out of the Sonos, the DS still shows a little green dot on the screen like everything is fine. Erikm, you indicate that by pulling the cable, it should go to a red dot on the DS screen, but mine stays green. The DS screen also does not show up as 16/44 as you mentioned above, it just is on 44/48/96, whatever I manually have it on.

My Mcintosh amp does not have anything in the REC input slots, and the analog RCA jacks direct from the Sonos to the amp work in either CD1, or CD2, or server just fine, so my inputs on the amp are working.

I’ve triple checked that i am not trying to play the files in another room with the Sonos and have it set to my main stereo room as indicated by it playing while connected directly to the amp.

I tried putting an SD card in the DS with the 6115 firmware update, both extracted and not extracted. The DS instructions say the blue logo should blink while it updates and it does not, so either it already has this update, or I have done something that is hindering the update.

I have also tried toggling on my amp from output 1 to 2 then both 1 and 2, and output 1 is the one that needs to be on for Sonos direct to the amp as well as my other sound sources. But it does not help with the DAC problem.

The only thing you guys have suggested I think i have not done is the bit perfect test, but since my Sonos is pumping music into the amp directly right now, I don’t think that should be an issue??

Is there a way for me to find out what firmware update I have installed on the DS? I wonder since I seem to have not gotten any changes from trying the update.

Oh, i even tried inserting just the coax cable, just the optical cable, then both at once, with no luck.

I just thought of this: I have a bridge installed in the DS, but I have not tried to use it before. Do i need to uninstall it to use the coax or optical? I know the bridge is not up to date, but it is inserted into the back of the DS. Would this be sabotaging me? Doesn’t seem like it if I am not on the bridge mode of the DS. ?

kellipah,

I’m a little confused. You said: “The DS screen also does not show up as 16/44 as you mentioned above, it just is on 44/48/96, whatever I manually have it on.” How are you manually selecting the sample rate? From the Sonos (I wouldn’t think so, especially as a stock Sonus does not go above 48 kHz, as I understand it)? The PWD let users select the sample rate (or Native of NativeX, both of which used the source file’s rate) but the DS does not. Which do you have, a PWD or a DS? You also say you know your Bridge is not up to date. I had assumed you had just purchased a DS with Bridge installed. Did you acquire them separately? Were they new or used? The Bridge needs to be firmware 2.15 or later and if this is a DS upgraded from a PWD the Bridge firmware needed to be upgraded before the DS upgrade was installed. Normally there is no need to uninstall the Bridge to use another input–I switch back and forth all the time. If you have a DS and the Bridge firmware has not been updated I do not know what happens (other than not being able to use the Bridge). You could always try pulling the Bridge out. As I recall it’s just held in by a couple screws and just needs to be wiggled out a bit. (Be sure to unplug everything first.)

Also, if you have a DS, on the coax input screen touch the little wheel in the top left corner. If the top right says FPGA 0.61 you have the current firmware.

I never pay much attention to this but the green button on the bottom of the input screen does not indicate you have a signal. As Ted explained, that is the mute (press it and it turns red and the DS is muted). On the input screen there should be an icon with a RCA connector. On the top right of that rectangle there should be a green dot if you have a connection. I think you know this but just wanted to make sure we are all talking about the same things. Do you get the little green dot in the RCA icon?

I’m at a loss, although I suspect something very simple. Sonos has a coax and toslink out, they are always on, unless the Sonos is muted, or the volume on the Sonos is turned down or off. If you hook up a optical or coax digital cable from it to the DS and have selected the correct input on the DS it should just play, mine certainly does! That the indicator on the coax input is showing green means the DS is locked to a digital signal. Without being there to trouble shoot it I’m out of ideas.

You have probably tried each of these, but just to try and isolate the issue:

  1. if you play the Sonos into another DAC (if you have one), does it work? If you connect the RCA line outs to the amps, does it work?

  2. If you connect another digital source to the DS (digital out from a CD player or compute), does it work?

OK.

This is really embarrassing but I bought the PWD from a dealer that ended up being very unhelpful. He had no use for the bridge as he was, I recall, getting out of stocking PS Audio products so he gave it to me. I just left it in unused. I had huge problems getting the PWD to work, and at one point I just ran RCA cables form the Sonos direct to my amp and just kind of forgot about it. I was just getting into digital and had gotten the Sonos at the same time and was in love with having all my Cds accessible at once and it sounded pretty nice as I had it.

It was not until I went for the DS upgrade kit that i realized i was still not even using the darn PWD. (I said this was embarrassing.)

So the bridge has never been upgraded or used.

So I just now took the bridge out of the DS and stuff still shows up on the screen like it is a PWD, the native format and other sample rates as stevenm says above. So, i am guessing that my unit, even though I installed all the stuff for the upgrade, is still thinking it is a PWD since I did not upgrade the bridge beforehand?

If so, does this mean i need to re-install the PWD, upgrade the bridge, then take it all apart again and put the DS in again, even if I am not using the bridge at all?

Yikes. I hope not.

As to the other suggestions, I do not see a little wheel in the coax screen to confirm the firmware update. (Might be because it is still showing PWD screens?)

I also tried a few days ago to play my CD player through the DAC with no luck either.

Hoping this does not go down as the dumbest story ever!

Thanks for everyone’s time. I hope there is another solution than spending hours and hours rebuilding the PWD??

I had a PWD with a bridge in it that I never even tried to use.

You’re not even close to the dumbest story ever; believe me we’ve all done worse. So, you installed the DS upgrade. Did you install the firmware that PS Audio provided with the kit? This should have come on an SD card with the kit and, I believe, is not the same as the firmware that is posted in the downloads section (it’s for one-time use in installing the kit and installs version 5407, which can then be upgraded to 6115). You may need to talk to PSA about how to get your Bridge updated without reinstalling the kit. I don’t think failing to upgrade the Bridge beforehand is the reason the display still looks like a PWD. That sounds like a DS firmware issue (the display board gets reprogramed when you install the update that came with the kit). The Bridge and DS firmwares are completely separate.

Ah, the plot thickens but we do have progress.

Personally, I would remove the Bridge for now and concentrate on getting the DS upgrade installed properly and fully functional.

I would also ask PSA if the Bridge can be upgraded in someone else’s PWD or back at PSA if necessary. The alternative is to put back the PWD guts and start over.

This depends on your comfort level in doing the work.

Once we know which route you will take, we can help further.

Where are you located?

Sorry Steve, I did not see your post.

No problem G. I agree with your suggestions.