System Photos!

[MTB_Vince]

My room irregularly plays host to guests that share my passion for music, but for movies and gaming nights, you must beat them back with a stick! In answer to your specific question @joma0711, the room is very quiet. Spoken word clarity is excellent and while the room certainly sounds very different than the much more reverberant spaces we normally live and work-in, it is in no way acoustically uncomfortable or “dead” sounding.

While there is a significant amount of acoustic treatment in this room, what there is still only occupies about a third of the room’s surfaces, even if you count the carpet. Treatments are divided up pretty evenly between diffusers and truly broadband absorbers. For example all the tube traps have their curved reflective surface facing into the room so they behave as diffusers from about 500Hz on up. So the Tubetraps along with all those wooden poly-diffusers (particularly on the upper walls) prevent slap echo without any loss of acoustic liveliness. The big square grey “trap” on the rear wall below the projector? Not a trap. It’s a diffuser too- a 3’x3’x9" deep fabric covered “skyline” 3d quadratic diffuser.

[MTB_Vince]

It would also be worth noting that when I added multi-channel capabilities to what was once a dedicated two-channel space, you end up requiring additional broadband panels to absorb the primary reflections from all those additional loudspeakers. Were this room two-channel only, three of the five panels rearmost running down each sidewall would be redundant.

[joma0711]

thanks for the detailed answer - it sounds like a good combination of live and not - well controlled
just needs a mixing desk and a separate recording space with a video link and you’re in business

[tmcqueen]

You wouldn’t believe the difficulties we are going through for SSA and the TN state retirement forms. They like their forms!!!

[tmcqueen]

Thanks I’ll pass it along to her.

[Craig_Burgess]

@terzinator

thanks. yeah, I’ve got lots of time on my hands these days. Might as well build stuff!

just finished these cabinets for my garage a couple of weeks ago. Plywood, and painted Park Tool Blue!

I’ll argue their appropriateness in this thread because the garage sound system is the old Apple Hi-Fi unit you see sitting on top of the right-most cabinet. (Also controlled via another chromecast audio dongle. I’m a sucker for these.)

Park tools rule!

[MTB_Vince]

Only a consumer would think that @Craig_Burgess- LOL! While there are certainly some Park Tools to be found in the workbench drawers in my bike shop, those that do are well outnumbered by several other brands of pro quality bike tools that are more durable and/or work better and/or are more ergonomically friendly to use.

It’s a great shade of blue though @terzinator!

[terzinator]

@MTB_Vince

Only a consumer would think that

always fun to come here to learn I’m listening to music wrong AND fixing bikes wrong

[rower30]

davida,

A person can’t be at fault for how a device operates, true. I re-read the post but didn’t see where I blamed you for how the P12 cools. Sorry if that was somehow conveyed. The data is pretty dry, really. So yes, if I somehow seem to over ride you that wasn’t the point at all. And yes, I do try to be aware of my posts and as factual as possible.

To be accused of deriding someone’s knowledge base was out of turn here, too. I did no such thing. And, you can see exactly when that’s done and how I felt because you felt it too from my post, real or not in intentions. In my case it was pretty direct, in yours case it was more abstract as I don’t see it re-reading the post(s), but I apologize for the double meaning and will be more thoughtful to make sure there isn’t any in the future.

I don’t think chops realizes that accusations are hurtful. There was no judgement on his knowledge base at all. None. The tone can be very demeaning, as you felt it too. I’ll make sure to moderate my posts for this kind of misunderstanding in the future. I just hope chops does too.

The post was directed at his interest in the CLX, and I agree that more power isn’t better with those. Better sounding “more power” is a good trade, but be careful.

Being an “engineer” has nothing to do with this. But I do know a few that definitely fits your complaint! I hear you there loud and clear. And no, I’m not the pope. Since none of use are, we do need reflection now and again.

This is one of the few decent places left on the Internet where hi-fi isn’t weaponized. Sorry to everyone if I defended that too vigorously.

And yes, I invent no double standards so I’m not offended by challenges that I was somehow out of turn for everyone. I shared what I use to moderate my post, and all my decisions. It’s easy to remember and effective. We ALL read this, so it is “everyone” that feels the heat, so to speak, on hot posts. My first comment to chops was definitely “hot” re-reading it, as I referenced everyone sees it, too, but in a demeaning way. I’ll nail my self on that one. Bad behavior is quickly contagious, too quick. Thus, chops reacted same as I did, too fast and too negative. We can take two negatives and make a positive out of it!

No one is on my ignore list as no one has been way off. Just be careful with how and what we say and what we know is for certain. Improve each other, not tear each other apart.

Best,
Galen Gareis

[rower30]

Now on to fun stuff…

On your nice rooms, when and how do you “test” it for being done? Use the primary listening seat and use impulse warble tones to judge dynamic linearity? This seems tough to do as music is dynamic and of course but ALL our music is not the same dynamically at all. Worse, the room gets loaded as we crank 'er up. I’ve been in rooms that look terrific, but are too damped, which is usually, not always, what happens when we start adding items into the room.

I clap my hand where I sit and listen for a natural sound, no ringing and no dull edges to the clap. But, this is JUST the one “clap” SPL and frequency range and I’m sure that’s been clapped out for overall accuracy, yes?

Pro studios must have some method to make sure it not over or under done. I just clap.

Best,
Galen Gareis

[paul172]

Vince I want to know where you got that rug? It looks awesome! And sure it’s great for acoustics!

[hthaller]

Clapping works, as does just listening to someone speaking loudly in the room.

For system tuning, I go by ear - listening mainly to vocals and acoustic instruments. I was a “bandie” and played in the local youth orchestra in my high school days, so I gained a familiarity with how various instruments sound in real space and the characteristics of their signature harmonics.

If I hear something I don’t like, I run a sweep using Room EQ Wizard and squint at the waterfall and spectrogram plots. This usually provides some general clues as to the origins of my distress and if it’s possible to fix - i.e. by room treatment, speaker placement, what have you. I’ll run before and after sweeps when making any change in acoustic treatment and/or speaker positioning to gain a better understanding of the changes I hear. Evaluating changes in cables, electronics and such is strictly by ear.

I have an fairly horrible room acoustically, but it’s at least a dedicated listening space that I can clutter up to my heart’s content. Using this approach I added bass trapping and absorption until the T30 of the room got down to a fairly uniform 300 ms across a fairly wide spectrum. Adding more at that point would deaden the room way too much, so at that point I started adding diffusion.

The next step is to sell the house and move

[MTB_Vince]

The rug itself was a relatively inexpensive synthetic shag thing I came across in the Kijiji ad of a carpet close-out re-seller located nearby in Toronto. I bought it a decade or so ago when I redid all the room colors in neutral greys and black to make for better movie viewing. The rug was simply the right color and size. I’ve since seen similar rugs on Wayfair.com I think.

The thick wool felt underpad beneath is the bigger deal acoustically. It was purchased via special order from a local high-end carpet store back when I originally built the room nearly 20 years ago. I think I read about the acoustic benefit of a wool felt underpad in preference of the more typical recycled sponge versions in the Master Handbook of Acoustics way back then but I wouldn’t swear to that being the info source…

[paul172]

I just noticed the door hinge under the acoustic panel! Very stealthy on the door! By the way I’m still working on getting CR-1 for my system!

[MTB_Vince]

Yeah, that panel is actually pictured on both the newest CAD line drawing Jim at Audiolabs created for me along with the original from 8 years ago with different gear. Actually almost all of the current room treatments go back to my original work with Jim 8 years ago when I was using larger floor standing Meridian active DSP loudspeakers fronted primarily by Meridian electronics. After running some ray-tracing speaker and treatment optimization simulations on my room again along with critical listening and some tweaks suggested by Room EQ Wizard measurements, it turns out the new gear works even better in pretty much the same spots.

[paul172]

Probably my favorite room of the systems I’ve seen on the forums! Extremely nice! Well done!

[BillT]

Incredible attention to detail @MTB_Vince.

Slightly off topic. When running a room mode calculator, what is the critical distance? Can the results inform the placement of acoustic treatment? Or just cut to the chase and get a mic and computer program?

[jamesh]

Nice, I really like this setup! Not many people here running purely active speakers. Looks like a large room to fill.

[MTB_Vince]

A great looking space you live in @chris_y! We live in a similar loft converted from a commercial space in a 150 year old 3 story building. Your pics were total deja vu for me as when I first moved into the space almost 20 years ago it was all wide-open and minimally furnished, much like your pics. The quintessential swingin’ bachelor pad- LOL!

[RonP]

That little tube thing is my latest toy. Decware SE84UFO. Mighty 2 watts of hilariously great sound.