Short update from me. While I’ve had NHTs in my 2 channel since the mid 90s, I’ve been considering other options. With the delay in the PSA speakers, I decided I would look at used / good value options for now. Considered both Sopra 2 (which I love the look) and Thiel 3.7. Sopra is still too much for my value mindset and the Thiels were fabulous, but lacked that bottom end.
So I’ve added 2 very different speakers to my arsenal for now. Super value/performance Zu Omen DW:
How fortunate you are to be able to do these head-to-head comparisons and take your time doing so…
My understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that those Zu’s are very “efficient”. Are you tempted to add some tubed amplification into the mix and extend the depth of the “rabbit hole”?
Have fun!
Scott
PS
If you have the time, I would love to hear some specific observations from you regarding the addition of the diffusion products across the front wall. Are they Vicoustic products?
Great questions - I’m working to convince a good friend locally to bring some of his tube amps over for listening sessions.
As for the diffusion, I will definitely share back thoughts as I listen (just installed on Thursday). It is a combination of GIK alpha series behind speakers, and a custom QRD center that I provided specs for a woodworker friend to create, then I sprayed to match the room.
With the many changes I’ve made simultaneously, it’s hard to make attributions. However, with the stack in between, I needed to separate the speakers considerably to overcome the stacks’ influence on the imaging. I now get better imaging with speakers closer together. The Iconoclast OCC XLR’s give me more detail than with the OFE XLR’s. At about 20 hours of break in they are sounding very good. At 100 hours they should sound exceptional. I’ll probably order the STPC’s as a birthday present to myself. I thought Siltech was the be all end all but the move to Iconoclast has proven worthwhile.
I was able to have my daughter’s boyfriend help me lower the 150 lb CAT 600.2 Amp onto a custom cut piece of synthetic quartz. It’s playing instead of my BHK 300’s and is sounding really good since it’s rebuild. I’ll let it hum all day long to help break in the new Iconoclast OCC XLR’s.
The speakers are about 18 inches from the back wall. I’ve been experimenting with the distance to boost bass output. Originally, I had them about 30 inches, but bass was impacted. The current location gives me a slight boost, to nice clean bass. No woollies here.
Update… Polk PSW505 subs out, JL Audio e110 subs finally back in after 3 years of them sitting in the closet with faulty amps. Now repaired and updated.
The Martin Logan’s do have an active subwoofer built in, not enough bass yet? Did you miss the power (SPL) aid the low frequencies or do the ML not go low enough?
Thank you both for the kind words. BillT, the room is 11.5’ x 15.5’ with an 8’ ceiling. All heavy plaster walls and ceiling. The house was built in 1951, so it’s rock solid. You’re not being too forward at all.
As bugeyed said, the SL3’s use passive woofers, not powered subwoofers.
And it has nothing to do with not going low enough. The SL3’s put out ample bass on their own, but like with most speakers that are positioned properly for great stereo imaging, depth and sound stage, they are NOT positioned for absolute best bass response.
As far as I’m concerned, ALL speakers, no matter what size and bass extension, they ALL will benefit from a pair of properly placed subwoofers.
I see. My brother In law has similar Martin Logan’s they have a power cord attached, so I assumed while needing power for the EHT it also fed active woofers.
My ML SL3’s are rated down to 30 Hz, and because they are sealed, they extend down even further, then add in room gain and you get a touch more low end extension and output.
I have no doubt that if I were to place these speakers close to the walls and position them as I would subwoofers, I would get pretty usable output out of them down to around 20 Hz. They almost do that now where they are at, but at that point, the output is considerably weaker since they are so far away from the walls, hence why the subwoofers are so important. Not to mention that these JL e110 subs are rated to 23 Hz, are also sealed, and are in proper locations for bass response, so they have no trouble at all reaching down well below 20 Hz, probably in the neighborhood of 16 Hz with clean, powerful output.
Then again, the JL’s are dedicated subwoofers and as such are designed to move a ton more air and be pushed much harder than the long-throw woofers in the ML’s. I believe the woofers in the SL3’s are capable of just over an inch peak-to-peak throw. The JL e110 drivers on the other hand can easily handle up to 2.5" peak-to-peak throw, while utilizing dual spiders, much larger voice coil, much larger magnet structure, larger surround, etc, etc, and 1200 watts RMS to back them up with.
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