Hi jazznut, I also did notice sonic differences. The center of the soundimage was too pronounced. I decreased the tow-in of me speakers a little bit, and everything is excelent now. I have to think about your bass remark, and try some songs.
Berlin
Question (mainly) for Ted
I have not been experiencing the pops/clicks that is under discussion, but recently Iāve noticed brief signal dropouts when playing 2X DSD files from the hard disk on my Aurender N100H. So Iām wondering if my situation is related? Somewhere between 2 and 3 minutes on 2x DSD tracks, there will be a brief dropout. Then again (sometimes) after 5 min on longer selections. The droupouts are repeatable if a track is replayed, but they do not occur at the same point in the selection - just within that 2 - 3- minute window, it seems.
I downloaded several double-rate DSD albums from HD Tracks last August to try them out. They played fine at the time. Since then, we have had Redcloud and a firmware update from Aurender, so who knows?
1X DSD flies are not affected. In fact, I downsampled a 2x DSD file that was exhibiting dropouts to 1X using J River, and it played just fine.
I suspect a buffering issue in the Aurender, and I just opened a help ticket with them, but it never hurts to ask.
Thanks, all
Howard
Berlin, I donāt remember much more but probably there were several differences in sound with 133. It just sounded so clearly worse to my ears, that I didnāt fiddle around longer. At that time I also switched to Huron and Torreys and couldnāt believe how much better Redcloud was.
Strange how different the compilations can soundā¦and I guess thereās really a risk, that some 20-40 versions of a future release donāt sound as good as a lucky release as the Redcloud 131 does.
But itās all also room acoustic dependent regarding bass performance. Some aspects might be more noticable for the one or other.
If you arenāt using the bridge, then Iām pretty sure itās not the DS or a change in the DS software - nothing related to decoding inputs, buffering, etc. changed between Huron and Redcloud and I havenāt seen nor heard of a similar problem from the FPGA. (Minutes are an eternity for the FPGA.)
If you are using the Bridge Iād still be a little skeptical, I donāt have a lot of experience with the Bridge, but it doesnāt know how far into a file you are (when you are playing DSD). Tho this isnāt conclusive Iād guess itās something to do with the buffering on the source.
Thanks, Ted
Iām not using the bridge. The Aurender goes directly into the USB input of the DS via a Cardas hi-speed USB cable.
I really donāt think the issue is with the DS, but figured it was an easy enough question to ask. The N100ās have a 125 MB SS buffer, and looking at the file sizes of 2X DSD recordings, the ātimingā of the dropouts very roughly correspond
to multiples of the buffer capacity (although this is crude analysis), so I suspect something with the buffering changed with a recent firmware update.
Thanks again,
Howard
Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986) for Windows 10
Is there an easy way for those of us who donāt use Bridge to test out 0133? While 0131 has attributes that sound great to my ears, try as I might I just canāt get it to provide the realism that Huron does.
Thanks, Ted, for the intriguing insight to the level of complexity you guys are dealing with here - the nature of the code itself is enough, but putting all of it subsequently through a compile, package, QA and release process is understandably intense.
I did a bit of Beta testing on Redcloud, after reporting low-level āwarblesā (Ted please advise usage vs āblurbleā) that I heard very occasionally with Torreys but constantly with low-level signals in Huron. As such Huron, a release that seemed to have everyone grasping for superlatives, was unlistenable on my (studio-oriented and notably unforgiving) system (DSJ straight into Focal Solos).
Unsurprisingly Ted was helpful, accessible and responsive throughout. The excellent customer service is a lovely addition to the value prop plusā¦ the team of geniuses doing their damndest to get me a brand-new state of the art DAC every few months for free.
On those terms, if I have to sit out the odd update, Iāll happily accept.
(I receive my DS Thursday. Will be very interesting to finally hear DS vs DSJ/BHK vs DS/BHKā¦ Now driving Focal SM9s)
Hi
I would like to try out 0133 too.
I do not use a Bridge so it isnāt a problem for me.
Thanks
I use the Bridge II and would gladly test 133 if needed.
Before finishing Redcloud I asked (privately) some users to be beta testers. They were some of the people that had run into the problem I was addressing and had reported it articulately with a repro case. I only needed a small number for the DS and for the DS Jr (tho the DS Jr users were the ones most affected by Huron.) As a part of the beta we usually ask that the beta testers not talk about what they experience with the beta - especially if thereās any chance that what they tested had a new feature or sounded much better than any particular released version, etc. because something else may keep that software from being released and then weāre behind the 8-ball with people clamoring for something that āsounds betterā but has unknown problems (perhaps problems that canāt be fixedā¦)
I violated my own rules and now weāre seeing a bit of the result: FOMO - people wanting exactly that (something new even if they donāt know the downsides.)
I thought I explained in my large message that we werenāt going to be sending out one-offs. Torreys was an example of that - the were multiple versions of a release out there, and it was virtually impossible to know if a reported bug existed in the official version: people were complaining about bugs in their version when that version wasnāt the official release, and worse, in my eyes, was that people were advising others to install software with known bugs but, at the very least, they should also be enumerating those bugs to the new āguinea pigsā so they wouldnāt hurt themselves and/or complain about known bugs. The net result was all of the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that that one would expect.
I trust every individual that has asked for a private version, but I donāt trust a group of people to not spread a version of the software, etc. or recommend it to strangers (e.g. new posters here or posters on other boards around the net) or to say āhey, to really hear what the DS is capable of you need to use [this unreleased software]ā¦ā I know people do that with the best intentions, but it doesnāt serve anyone well in the long run.
When we found out how bad Redcloud was for a few people I originally had hoped that there would be a new release right on the heals of Redcloud, but PS Audio only has so many engineering resources and many things to do. Is releasing a new version of Redcloud more important than say, working on the DMP? (Or whatever I was/am working on? (donāt ask.))
8 Likes
Thanks, Ted. An excellent explanation and thank you for providing is with this bit of insight into the process.
All this is what I understood so far (makes sense to limit public versions) also that you had a different expectation regarding a fix. It was risky to leave it like that, but with the option to lower level it works.
Whatās still a mystery to me is, how future releases can be under control in preserving specific virtues if differences among compilations are so big and uncontrollable, just selectable.
Most of the time all 20 compiles of a new release sound better than any of the compiles of the previous release. The changes I make all make the whole process technically better - I donāt put in a change if it makes things less faithful to the inputs - and this keeps us from chasing our tails.
Great thatās good to know!
So if the current Redcloud was no special stroke of luck we should be confident that it might get even better without having to select from more than 20 releases. Itās great that so much effort is put in those cost free updates. So I understand the need to avoid add. shorttermed fixed versions.
I work in a world of NDAās, IP and govt work so when I say that Iād use it, thatās all that would use it.
Ted, I now hear the pop with a SACD from the DSMP to DS dac with Redcloud. I will see if I here it with a redbook cd? I donāt have dsd files on my mac so canāt say if it happens with the bridge 2 I have installed.
I use a .3m Wireworld Platinum hdmi so I donāt think itās a cable issue?
It depends on the pop -
- if they are more or less continuous (while tracks are playing), you are playing at a volume near 100 and if it changes in character as the volume level is changed and goes away if the volume is lowered to below approx. 90 then itās the bug in the FPGA code in Redcloud.
- If itās not 1) above and if most SACDs play fine and a few donāt play right it might be that you have a SACD with the stereo section DST compressed (DST is a lossless compression designed to work with DSD that approx halves the size of files. Itās required for the multichannel section of SACDs but optional on the stereo section. Itās ususally only used on stereo sections of discs which are very long and hence need the compression.)
- if itās not either of the above Iād try a different cable or input between the DMP and the DS, say a digital RCA or XLR or the other I2S input or an unrelated cable.
For 1) and 2) above it wonāt happen with PCM (or at least the same thing wonāt happen with PCM)
Itās not constant just once in a while, maybe once quick ( like a dirty LP ) every 3-4 mins or so, so 1 is not my issue. Iāll try the OEM cable again. See if it disappears. The SACD I was playing earlier when I heard was just a stereo sacd, no multi track option on disc.
Ted, while playing Dire Straits Brothers in Arms sacd, i hear the crack / pop static type noise. I tried oem hdmi, and also filter. Also tried without filter and dac turned down to 80. I may ( since now I have many more sacd due to new DSMP ) that I may go back to Torrys.
I hope the next release this will be corrected if possible?
It doesnāt sound like itās the DAC. Brothers in Arms is a DST compressed disk - as I mentioned above I suspect thatās at the root of the problem. Iāll see if I can find my physical Brothers in Arms SACD to test it in my DMP. I was just listening to my ripped version yesterday so I know itās not the specific material. Double check that you arenāt playing the multichannel section.