Anybody recognize that quote? It’s from the Disney movie 101 Dalmatians, said a few times between Cruella Deville and the guys who stole the puppies. Aside from that I have a question:
I am going to upgrade my DAC and system of delivering data to it. The DAC will be the Stellar (possibly the Gold), connected to the AirLens. I will use a MacBook Pro running Roon to trigger the AirLens to pull the data from a new NAS server or directly from an ethernet connection to the great big world of audio streaming.
So I figured while I was at it, I might as well do what I can to ensure solid clean delivery of data via ethernet to the AirLens. I’m going to use better ethernet cables and I’m looking at what to do about the ethernet switch. I’ve read and heard from my brother that it makes a difference, but I need to weigh that against what I can afford. I’ve attached a diagram of my system, so as you can see it’s pretty much all at the “Stellar” level in PS Audio terms. No way am I going to spend as much on a network switch as an AirLens, but does anyone have any suggestions on something, say in the $100 to $200 range? Does it really matter whether it’s an unmanaged vs. managed switch? I could buy a NETGEAR unmanaged switch on Amazon for about $15, but I could also buy wire to power my speakers at Home Depot for about the same cost.
So I get it with regard to better cables, but what would you do if you had around $500 to spend on ethernet wiring and switches?
And, final thought, since the job of the AirLens is to clean up and reclock the data and all that, do I really need to worry about this level of ethernet anyway?
Great project. Here’s my opinion for what it’s worth.
I believe the most significant improvement you can get for your money is with the streamer (AirLens ‘gateway’ as Paul prefers to call it) and the DAC. Even if there is some improvement from buying a ‘better’ network switch and using ‘better’ ethernet cables, I believe the biggest improvement will come from the AirLens and the DAC, regardless of the upstream network cabling and devices. This presumes you get a ‘bit-perfect’ data stream at the AirLens which is almost certainly the case with today’s network devices, regardless of price. When I say ‘bit-perfect’ I mean the data are identical to what is in your NAS files or on the streaming service provider’s files.
Given that initial premise, in your case, I would just use a network ‘hub’. Some may call it an ‘unmanaged switch’ but ‘switching’ is unnecessary because the data stream coming out of your Netgear router is visible to all the devices on your home network. Each device only responds to data packets that are addressed to it.
If there is any ‘jitter’ or timing issues with the bit stream as it enters the AirLens (notwithstanding that it ‘must’ be ‘bit’perfect’) then that will be cleaned up, re-clocked and forwarded onto your DAC which may apply further isolation techniques to it. Any ‘switching’ functions you may need, such as allocating an IP address to a specific devices by pairing it to its MAC address, should be provided by the Netgear router.
In summary, IMHO, spend your money on the AirLens and DAC.
Hi Mike, Thank you very very much. It’s pretty much what I’m thinking - that as long as I’m using good quality wiring and switch to get the data to the AirLens, any noise or jitter or mis-clocking would get fixed by the AirLens, which is why I’m buying the thing to begin with - I mean, give it something to DO!. I have gotten noticeably improved results from speaker, interconnect and USB cables made by Pine Tree Audio - seems to be a one-man show in Massachusetts. I reached out to Jesse for advice on the switch and my guess is he’s going to tell me the same thing - use a decent-quality unmanaged switch to make sure the data gets through clearly.
I hate to be a Jonny Jerk about this, but I would really love to put ten people who claim they can hear a difference between a $100 switch and this one selling for $4,349 into a perfect listening environment, randomly switch (intended) back and forth and see if there’s any consistency in reporting which is better. But I’m sure someone would say, “You have to warm the four-grander up to 71.6957 degrees Fahrenheit with a 44.7 percent relative humidity on a Thursday morning at 4:27 am - then you could REALLY hear how it opens up the soundstage.”
I just found this YouTube video about network switches and I think this guy makes a lot of sense. And do spend a few minutes reading the comments below it - they’re very interesting.
So I think I’m coming back to closing my own loop on transfer of digital information: I don’t think it is possible for any human to reliably and repeatedly hear the difference between what’s going on with the digital data as long as it’s not something severe. If it’s severe, it will be obvious - a drop-out or audible “glitch”. So it makes sense to at least do some hardware-based things to minimize the chances of these glitches. Using the AirLens and a good DAC will handle any timing or clocking issues. However, there ARE things we can do to minimize electrical noise. I love what he says something like “why in the world would we think that minimizing the noise on a tiny upstream device would make any difference when that data is going to run through something that could generate thousands of times more noise?” So I think that by putting my audio on a dedicated circuit and using the PS Audio PowerPlant 3, I will have done as much minimizing of noise as possible, or at least what my ears could possibly hear.
My recommendation on ethernet cables for the less than wealthy crowd (that’s me!) is to use BlueJeans cat 6/6a cables. They’re reasonably priced, are made to whatever length you need, use high quality Belden cable, and are tested prior shipping to make sure they meet specifications. Buying ethernet cables on the computer market can be hit or miss quality wise.
As for switches, I haven’t gone the audiophile route yet, instead I got a used Cisco business class switch from eBay. Can’t tell you what model, not at home right now, but somewhere on the internet there is information on which models to get. Sorry that is so vague.
The very best Ethernet cable I have ever experienced is the MUON Pro System. In the vicinity of $2k. Highly recommended by at least 30+ users on this forum. It is a magic box with an attached cable, and a four foot long detachable cable. The Magic box part grabs any and all noise for a quiet so deep and dark it takes getting used to.
I’ve heard good things about the whole line of Blue Jeans cables. But I think I’m going to go with the same place I got all my other cables - speakers, interconnects - and that’s Pine Tree Audio. His approach is just reasonable - using great materials, but using his ears to verify what he’s doing. I see the response from @aangen and it’s intriguing to think I’d ever hear that kind of deep, dark silence, but I’d need to start a long way back investing a lot of money I don’t have. So I guess I’ll just have to live with normal silence. And hell, I’m 65 and have tinnitus that sounds like a field of cicadas anyway.
In a home network, there is no real need for a managed switch. That only means there is an admin interface to where you can log in and do some advanced configuration within the switch. Otherwise, an unmanaged switch just exists (for lack of a better term) and does its simple job of sending packets to their proper destination. Switches are also commodity items, so I will never pay a lot for them. Beyond my router, I have five switches in the house, given the challenges of our wiring situation. (And may end up with six, if we stay here and I add PoE IP cameras to the mix.)
Agreed. Especially if using the AirLens or anything else with galvanic isolation.
Okay, I always wanted to do this exercise, but the constant upgrades and tweaks get in the way. Finally, now that my system has had no change for the last few weeks, I could try this.
I removed the duo-switches and the fiber optic link from my streaming chain (LHY SW10/FO/SW6) last night. So, the Muon Pro filter is connected to the satellite and the other end of the filter is connected to MU2 with a Shunyata Omega ethernet. So, the two switches are not in the chain.
What did I hear? I lost soundstage, depth, clearness, resolution, dynamic, bass, treble. I might as well say the system sucks so much that I could not even listen for more than one song. But I continued the torture for another hour just to see if the SQ would improve. No, it continued to suck, so I promptly put back the switches. Soon after I am in heaven again.
If this is reality then mine is confusing. I have an LHY Ethernet to fiber converter. From there, using the @dchang05 approved SFP’s and fiber I feed an SW6. From there, two MUON Pros. One to the MU2, one to the BACCH-SP adio.
I definitely don’t think the sound I am hearing is anything close to bad. It sounds amazing to me.
So your message suggests that if I added a couple of switches, my sound would improve dramatically? What switches, where?
I have very serious doubts. I am willing to try. Perhaps you could diagram what you believe is better. Hopefully you will not insist that adding an SW10 is required. That doesn’t make any sense to me at all. None.
But I could be open to it, just not any time soon. I just bought a new SUV. Then Thursday, Friday, and to a lesser effect today’s market activity has me pretty cash poor with zero interest in selling stock.
I drink wine, not drug ever since I do not want to ruin my golf game.
You have two Muons, an LHY SW-6 switch, FO, plus an LHY converter too. So, you have plenty of everything needed for active filtering and passive filtering, more than most for sure.
If you are telling me that they do not make much SQ difference, so be it. I heard the difference from fuses too. So, I have no idea but have no doubt that we hear differently.
Re-read your post, I think you are asking if another switch is needed. No, SW-6 is used as an ethernet/FO converter in my case. The main switch is SW-10 for me, and yours is SW-6. In my case, SW-10 sounded a bit better than SW-6 so I put SW-10 closer to MU2, but I am not suggesting that you get another switch.
You said the above. So I am asking what changes you made to get this awful sound. If I read your message correctly, you took a switch or two out. Which suggests to me that you believe switches add better sound.
As far as I understand, Al already has a fiber optic connection for galvanic isolation. However, as Donald says, he uses the LHY SW 6 switch as the endpoint. The Muon Pros take care of the noise. I use an LHY SW-6 at the beginning, connected via fiber optic to my Melco S100, and a Muon Pro in front of my streamer. For me, two switches connected via Ethernet cables made no difference to just one. Both switches connected via fiber optic cables have a positive effect on the soundstage. Today, I plugged two Phonosophie Clips into each of my Ethernet cables, and the soundstage has improved even further. If Al feels the urge to add something else, there will probably be some recommendations to put the LHY SW 6 switch at the beginning of the chain and use a Tempus switch as the endpoint. The Ansuz Sorz and the Phonosophie Clips improved the streaming quality in my case to a similar extent as the Muon Pro. The Phonosophie Clips seem to enhance an Ethernet cable even further and help make interference more bearable. If Al likes his streaming results, I’d leave it as it is. Records are also wonderful to listen to. And that seems to be the preferred source. Or am I mistaken?
Al, that was what I wanted to say. I removed both switches (and FO link) from the system, and the SQ degradation was more than expected; considering I have MU2 plus Muon Pro, and Omega already. It seems the switches are important in my system.
With only one switch in the chain, I will not be able to use fiberoptic cable. I have tried this before as I remember. My recollection is, using the relative strength of % on SQ improvement. If the duo-switches with FO plus a clock cable is100%, then SW-6 alone improved the least (25%), and SW-10 alone improved more (50%). However, together the duo is more than double the individual’s performance. The duo can compete with many higher-priced switches I believe.
Do not hurry to go out to buy an LHY SW-10. The rumor is that they are working on a replacement for SW-10, but the rumor has been going on for a while. They may have a hard time producing something better without charging an arm and leg regardless of tariff situation.
