Theoretica Applied Physics BACCH

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My set up will be a sonictransport i5 as roon core. Mac mini as rooon endpoint. USB to matrix and AQ Dragon to the i2S1 on MK2. Currently a Sonore UltraRendu is end point.

My preference is to keep linux based Roon Core and avoid iOS incompatibility worries. It seems most of Roon crash issues crop up with streamers that are not dedicated or hosted on MacOS or Wndows OS. Just go to Roon Community and do some searches. Especially after OS update.

I have a 12volt Macmini conversion kit to run it off an LPS. I will be able to try it powered both ways.

I found in my system in order for i2s1 to sound its best you have to use shorting plugs on USB and i2s2and ground lift i2S1 input Eventually the mk2 will have ability to pull power to those circuits in the user interface software. Then shorting plugs shouldn’t be required.

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Thanks @Steve08226 - I appreciate your thoughtful reply. With regard to Edgar’s comment on a dedicated streamer box, it is a necessary component for me currently as I do not have a Bridge 2 card installed in my DSD MKI i.e., the Aries G1 is the only Roon end point available to me.

I fully agree that optimizing the reproduced sound as heard by my ears in my room is the overarching objective. Not having the benefit of hearing the BACCH system personally, it wasn’t intuitive to me that replacing a purpose-built streamer with a Mac Mini running their app would further achieving this objective. I’m encouraged by the results you and others are experiencing!

When you and others are listening to your system with the BACCH active, I imagine the 3D spatial characteristics are what jumps out immediately. Beyond that, do you notice any change (for better or worse) with respect to the tonality of the sound? In other words, do you perceive any compromise in fidelity by using the Mac Mini to achieve the enhanced spatial sound stage?

Are there any formats supported by the MKII that are precluded when using the BACCH?

My apologies for all the questions; I’m just trying to open my eyes to what, if any, trade-offs are associated with incorporating the BACCH into my system.

@Steve08226 does the Mac Mini whe used as roon end point perform MQA first unfold off Tidal? Right now that is a minor concern but is something an ultraRendu does.

This German article is very short and gives a great overview.

I first time read about some limitations/recommendations to consider, stronger/weaker behavior depending on music and room, which is interesting.

I ran just those parts through the translator (they are as enthusiastic as everyone else about where the BACCH works best):

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As microphones BACCH uses supplied in-ear types, the measuring and listening place should be on the axis between the speakers. The disadvantage is that the optimal result is only available at this place as well as at a place in front of and behind it. However, slight head movements are allowed due to the integration of a tracking camera.

For satisfactory results with the BACCH system, the listening room should have as few reflections as possible from surfaces that are close to the listener. This can be achieved by using acoustic elements - such as in the stereoplay listening room. Also helpful is an optimized loudspeaker placement per equilateral triangle - as far away from boundary surfaces as possible. Finally, speakers with high directivity are advantageous. As the calibration procedures showed, two rooms were not suitable for sufficient BACCH results without significant interventions in the listening situation.

Finally, we were interested in usual stereo material. The BACCH effect was not very pronounced with studio productions - such as “Watermelon Man” by Harvey Mason. On the other hand, 3D audio with acoustically recorded music was much more successful.

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Thanks @Vmax - my plan would be to continue use of my Nucleus for Roon Core functionality. It was a bit more expensive than I think it should have been but I haven’t had any issues associated with Roon software releases. Like you, I would be swapping out the SMPS for an LPS on any Mac Mini I end up using. Is it your plan to continue using the Matrix in support I2S to the MKII? Consensus seems to be both are pretty equal in the MKII.

All the best on Saturday (or whenever your session with Edgar takes place)!

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Don’t know, we use Qobuz, we’ve tried Tidal a few times (with, no MQA) it wasn’t for us.

Yes I will continue with Matrix powered by the HDPLEX300. I had done some 3M absorber tricks to quiet its USB XMOS and FPGA in Matrix and also with my i5 sonic transport processor and a RAM and my router switch. Therefore the others calling equal they maybe if not modded.

The tweaks are all additive. I will likely try USB pulling the ground isolation trick. That I had not tested since the feature explanation came late by PSA. I could slwsys use the Dragon HDMI on my apple TV or start streaming movies from the mini. Apple TV is hard to beat its voice interface and remote though.

I kept Tidal it is very good with MK2 from Roon and also should be able to stream music videos with picture from the macmini out the HDMI port on Tidal app out to big screen I can use Bacch for 3D sound out USB. Qobuz doesn’t offer music videos.

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Amen brother!

You have the same questions we had, that is the secret sauce (I am a Chef / Owner so I like food analogies). First thing I said to Edgar after listening to BACCH4MAC was how did you get the 3D spatial characteristics and cancel the crosstalk of the speakers without any degradation of the music. His answer was that is what all the patents are about.

On a side note, Sandy Gross has a BACCH SP in his system, and Sandy throws “nickels around like manhole covers”. If he put that in his home system there must be something to it. So, it was easy to take the leap with a 100% money back guarantee, no questions asked with just a software download for $1K. Plus anything you buy gets 100% credited to the next step up (can’t beat that).

We just bought a ton of stereo equipment over the last 12 months, and when I start to bring up the next step up for BACCH, at this time, the Mrs. just gives me the stink eye.

Give me time, just give me time!

Just My Thoughts,
Steve

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One really nice feature with BACCH on the computer everything from the computer goes through the BACCH software, and then the MKII.

It’s really cool listening to YouTube, and music samples that are online etc. etc. this way.

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Yes, we have found that there are generally 3 types of music improvements using BACCH.

On all music there is sonic improvement, but on just a few song it was a little improved.

On a lot of music there is a really good improvement in sound.

On most of the music it’s a game changer!

Right now I’am sitting in front of my computer listening to Roon direct to the MKII (no BACCH yet) with a tear in my eye waiting for Edgar to call to re-install the BACCH software in our new Mac Mini. Don’t get me wrong with the galvanic isolation in the MKII the Mac Mini sounds good, but with BACCH in our old Mac it sounds great!

Yeah, we love music videos, do you remember when MTV just started. I didn’t get any sleep for months. :rofl:

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Humm, We’ll have to try Tidal again, especially because of the videos… Thanks

Yes…although this really is a quite strategic topic for manufacturers of expensive DAC’s, this thread is quite quiet from officials’ sides :wink: while potential buyers think of what doing next in this situation.

I read somewhere BACCH is around since 2016?? If so, I don’t understand why it rocks the scene just now. If not and if it’s red-hot, it should be a challenging time to find a strategy for those manufacturers.

Who would buy a 20k+ normal DAC now? (if BACCH is really that good)

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I was wondering about whether highly directive speakers were preferred for the BACCH system. Looks like MBL and perhaps dipole speaker owners would not get much benefit. On the other hand it seems that it might be great for some electrostatic speakers.

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For some reason the di-poles are still good. The reflections near listener kill the cross talk cancellation.

Jazznut,

I know what you mean, we waited over 3+ years for a music server streamer complete with storage and it’s own operating system. Now things seems to be a quasi Roon end point streamer and with the MKII having such great galvanic isolation it opened the door for different directions to be considered.

FYI/ We have no affiliation with any company other than our own restaurant. We are all about getting the most cost effective way to listen to beautiful music. We chime in on subjects that we know a little about, because we’ve learned so much on this and the Decware forum we feel we should pay it forward.

Did you get a sense about distance from the camera to the listener?

I have a C920 as my work camera. I just stepped back from it 8’ which is the distance the camera would be in my main listening area. With some zooming I could get a bit more cropped view of my body, but not an exclusive view of my head. At six feet I had much better results.

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I was told by Edgar the earmikes have 16 foot extension cables and head tracker will work out to my 14 foot sitting position in lower level lights.

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Thanks, that was my next question! I thought if they weren’t long enough I’d make my own extensions.

I am looking forward to learning about camera distance.

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