I am confused. I didn't get the statement about "fibre between DAC and the router" - care to explain?
Hi, sure - yep that's correct. The fiber (and pair of FMC's) was introduced to replace most of the ethernet between DAC and router (apart from short 6 inches on the ends).
In your case the fiber was introduced to replace most of the ethernet cable betwdeen your Aries and router, no?
Are you using a Directream with your Aries? And USB cable between the two? Which USB cable and what length?
I’ve seen people report differences when introducing fiber on the music server side of the router, which sounds counter intuitive to me but I never discount and always respect peoples obsevations. But on paper I thought the biggest improvement is to be had right before the ethernet input of the DAC (for the Bridge II for DS owners) and using an ultra short ethernet cable.
I would think (guessing only, I’m no expert) using fiber further upstream would make a smaller difference but some people have noted differences with fiber used much further upstream of their USB DACs.
@Mi2016 - You should try bypassing your router altogether and do a direct connect from your PC (Mac Mini in my case) to the DS. Your sound will improve even more, I’d wager. I detailed how I got it to work for Mac Mini in post #23 in this thread:
There is an epic thread on this on Computeraudiophile.com. As far as I know, I’m the first to get this working with Mac > PSA DS Sr. The PC instructions are on that thread here:
When you say I’d have even more improvements, are you doing both the direct Mac-to-DS connection and using FMC’s?
I do know all those threads. You’re lucky in using a Mac because John Swenson mentions Apple ethernet ports have the best signal integrity, far better than commonly found in ISP modems and routers, so that may be a reason for the improvement of the direct Mac-to-DS ethernet connection. Uptone definitely say you need to use the Mac’s ethernet port for the endpoint connection and use the cheap usb-to-ethernet adapter for the router connection. Alex said using the latter to your endpoint sounds crap and may be worse that your router (possibly due to signal integrity as mentioned).
So on that latter point, I have a Surface Pro 4 with USB 3.0 hub, so I would need to use 2 x USB-to-ethernet adapters and bridge their connections. I don’t imagine the signal integrity from those adapters is better than my Apple Airport Extreme (using Alex’s guide that Apple use high quality high signal integrity Broadcom chips) so I don’t bother.
But I should try it to compare with the optical isolation. I really don’t know how it can get better than only have a 6 inch ethernet cable into the DS but I’m willing to try it.
Have you tried FMC’s, right before the Bridge II input? The improvement for me was quite shocking.
I’m powering both FMC’s by Uptone LPS-1’s (that I already had) although I don’t think the router side FMC needs anything special.
I agree with Alex. The dedicated ethernet port to the DS is optimal in this situation and was more stable than the other way around, in my experience, even if they sounded more or less the same. As far as using the FMC, I didn’t notice any improvement at all with them in between the Mac and DS. Maybe there was a slight decrease in dynamics, actually, so I removed them from in between the Mac and the DS. I definitely noticed an improvement with streaming Tidal through Roon with the FMC in between the router and the Mac, so there they stay. Not huge, but things just sounded more “right”. I also power my FMC’s with a single LPS-1 with a splitter. I’m very happy with the setup! I’d be curious if the direct setup is an improvement for you. Good luck!
Hi all, so I got these optical bits to try it out between my router and BridgeII and what I found was, that although the treble sounded very clean the bass was gone, it had a very lean sound. So sadly all the optical bits are back in their boxes and will go in the back of my cupboard to be forgotten about.
It shows how all our systems can behave very differently with the same component added. I found the bass got deeper and more accurate sounding.
Did you power the DAC side FMC with a linear PSU, out of interest? If not, may be worth a try if you can access a good 5V at 1amp minimum, linear PSU, for trial
I found that if this power supply isn’t better than your routers, then you could be no better off, only from experience/personal observations in my system.
I’m with @Mi2016. I found there was a benefit between the router and the server (Mac Mini in my case), but not between the server and the DS Sr (I use the bridged direct ethernet connection). And the power supply helps too! As do the ethernet cables used. I have no idea why that is, but it seems to. I use the Cat 7 Tera Grand cables which are a great value.
I’m enjoying the improvements they made so much that I’m getting someone to look at upgrading the capacitors and switching regulators (and there’s a couple of cheap linear regulators in there too) for higher quality components, to get the full benefit of the external linear PSU’s I’m using.
Hi mi2016, I used the stock (cheap) PSU units that came in the box withe the 2 units. I only tried it between router and DS. I guess I should also try it between NUC and router.
Has anybody tried 4 rechargeable AA batteries in series instead of the PSU on the DS side unit? Is that an option?
I use two TP-Link 6700 power banks (floating battery power supplies) to power my FMC’s as this was recommended to me by someone over at the CA forum. I can’t say that I tested it versus the stock PSU but in theory it made sense and was cheap to implement.
I have wondered if it would be better to use an audiophile LPS such as iFI or LPS-1 but that struck me at the time as overkill for an FMC. But it might improve things so I guess I won’t know for sure without testing.
The fiber isolation is really needed and I find it very very critical with computer audio. I think all network audio gears should have an SFP/ST fiber port instead of RJ45. Network switches with multiple SFP ports are also becoming readily available. My wish is that the upcoming PSA music server and Bridge III should also have a direct fiber out
However, I haven’t played with the better quality power supply. On my FMC, I use the stock and haven’t noticed anything that degraded from not using one. It only made things better.
Just some personal observations. The powerpacks are great for blocking groundloops and leakage current loops - important of course.
However I asked TP-Link a while ago about the noise levels at max power output of one I had a while ago and they said 300mV (which is high compared to an iFi iPower or a quality linear PSU).
In my system having the best power supply on the DAC side FMC is more important than the router side, just for quick observations I did in my system.
I also really think the DAC side FMC should have the shortest ethernet cable you can find. I had BJC make me a 6-inch Cat 6 cable but it worked well with a generic 1 ft Cat 6 cable too.
Hi Alan, I’ll give the 6700 a go, presumably 2, one on each unit
Hi Chris,
In theory it’s the downstream FMC (after the Fibre and closest to the DAC) that benefits the most from being isolated from the mains. But for the cost involved I figured what the heck and did both.
Mi2016 makes an interesting point about a short run of ethernet between the downstream FMC and DAC or NAA.
I don’t think this is the exact one I used, but this one should work fine. Sweetwater is a solid company and may provide a better product than the random splitter I got on Amazon.
The fiber isolation is really needed and I find it very very critical with computer audio. I think all network audio gears should have an SFP/ST fiber port instead of RJ45. Network switches with multiple SFP ports are also becoming readily available. My wish is that the upcoming PSA music server and Bridge III should also have a direct fiber out
I think that these are really important points. It’s time for audiophile network audio products to step up to galvanically isolated LAN connections to minimise incoming interference. I would really hope that keeping the fibre media converter (FMC) in the audiophile product where it would benefit from an audiophile power supply would improve sound quality for all of us who’s conventional (i.e., electrical) LAN connections are bringing interference into our precious digital source components.
Perhaps PS Audio will lead the way with fibre optic LAN inputs in future products.
amgradmd said
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PPAV?product_id=PPAV&campaigntype=shopping&campaign=aaShopping%2520-%2520Core&adgroup=Guitars%2520-%2520Pedals%2520%26%2520Effects%2520-%2520Other&placement=google&adpos=1o2&creative=103263529321&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KCQjws-LKBRDCARIsAAOTNd4ocNHfTvJHLBBF33eRAZ-mUCEJ7yFs1D2mi6hYGwkNxvCdvUgqpWEaAi-pEALw_wcB
Thx amgradmd, do I need this 1xMale connected from LPS-1 to 2xFemale, then I will need to add another two of Female to Female cable;
