what would you say if...


#1

what would you say if someone likened the PWD2 to a pos CD player from 1990’s and proclaimed “It’s just not a high end device at all”.



then they finished by comparing PSA to Bose??..and stated "it’s not a matter of opinion"



http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1382330862&openfrom&5&4#5



i can’t be the only one who thinks this guy is an arrogant narcissist.?? or maybe i am???


#2

I’d say there was something very different about his system and his room than mine where what he likes plays down the bad things of his system/room and enhances the good when the PWD, unfortunately, gives him something he doesn’t like to hear because of things outside the control of the PWD. And for his room, he may be right. (There are some rooms with just lousy Louden ratios that no amount of good gear can sound good. Edit: See http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=3148 – his room may have a Louden ratio of 1.0 (bad) but he blames the PWD for the fault.)



So it makes no sense (as m Mom would say) to get into a pissing contest with a skunk, as he most likely believes what he hears because of his circumstances. We just have to accept that sometimes this happens. Politely disagree, say the PWD works great in your room on your system and move on.



–SSW


#3

I do not find his opinions any less reasonable than any other obsessive audiophile. This is a hobby based solely on individual preference. As a result, it gets personal and often overly dramatic.



Of course, the Bose v. PWD is hyperbole. Audiophiles are drawn to"revelatory" descriptions.



If he truly is comparing the DACs he describes with the equipment he claims to possess, he is listening in rarefied air and the PWD is in superb company.



As SSW nicely states, let it go and move on.


#4

Yup.

it is all subjective and “supposed” to be fun, lest we forget.

I actually heard the Weis202 in my system as well as the Berkley2overall and Ayre.

The PWD was my preferred but I also did like the Weiss on certain types of music. It was much more “colored” than the PWD and I found it boring after an evening of listening but if one has a very bright system in a very bright room it will probably make his Beber albums sound pretty good.


#5

so stating it’s not a matter of opinion or application and he/his small circle knows the truth… is OK ?? i disagree.



have never had any issue’s with someone stating their opinion. it’s one thing to state what you like and don’t like… that’s what we all do. it’s entirely something else to say others are basically fools and don’t “know” what he seems to know. no problem not liking the PWD. my problem is pretending everyone who does like it is “wrong” (fine line here that was crossed imho)



sorry…i don’t let insults go. never have and never will (online or in person). it only encourages these types of people to continue doing it



completely out of bounds imo.







#6

Arguing to support one’s view and arguing to prove one’s only view is the right one are two different arguments.

The addition of compassion for our fellow “addicts” may serve to soften the discourse.



“I used to appreciate interaction with smart people. As I age I tend to be more attracted to “kind” people.”


#7

Well… look at what devices people upgrade to when they give up their PWD’s. The only one I can think of right off is the EMM (there are others, to be sure) and this is an indicator of where the PWD lies in the field. I would judge, from looking at various sources on the world wide interwebs using the Google, that he is of a minority opinion. Probably most look at his assessment that way as well and it is just an opinion, after all. It absolutely SMOKED my Krell from the 90’s. Poor thing is sitting on the floor with nothing to do, lonely, unappreciated. :o3


#8
Levi said: so stating it's *not a matter of opinion or application* and he/his small circle knows the truth... is OK ??

It is persuasively ineffective and reflects a closed mind-set, but all who read it can easily see this. Point this out if you must, but I personally would not bother; he is merely a random voice on the Internet.

In the alternative, respectfully disagree and congratulate him on finding the One for his individual application and personal preferences.

Gordon said: Arguing to support one's view and arguing to prove one's only view is the right one are two different arguments.

True, and the latter is inherently flawed as "right" is entirely subjective in this context.

Levi said: i don't let insults go. never have and never will (online or in person). it only encourages these types of people to continue doing it

I would not let it disturb my Wa.

Additionally, my observation is that a challenging response serves to exacerbate the issue. These people thrive on conflict and sadly feed on the negative energy they produce.


#9

i'm only respectful to people who are respectful of me. showing respect to someone who has none for others only reinforces their disrespectful behavior imo. i've never been shy about getting in someones face (literally or figuratively) if they insult/disrespect me/my opinions. yes....disagreement is fine/healthy and debating the issue/topic can be enjoyable/enlightening....but only if done with mutual respect and acknowledgment that other opinions exist and *can be* just as valid.


this has nothing to do with the Weiss vs PSA DAC. both can be great pieces of gear. this has to do with someone thinking their taste/preference is more valid then someone else's.


so no....i don't belong to the "turn the other cheek" camp....unless you mean the cheek down below as i turn around and tell them to kiss it. :D



#10

It is your call, of course. I am not posting in the thread. :slight_smile:



I find that responding with similar poor behavior merely serves to escalate the conflict. All energy which could be productively spent is deflected into bickering. As an obvious example, witness the current U.S. Congress.


#11
Elk said: As an obvious example, witness the current U.S. Congress.


a great example.

@levi
You could also benefit from this occasion to reflect on the episode and to in fact use it as an exercise to be less affected by such events.
Good-natured "shoulder punching" can be appropriate but all parties should be aware of the context or it can become personal and hurtful.
If Mr. "Weinstein/Einstein] comes across as you read him, then imagine for a moment what his life may be like if he goes through it in that state. There could also be some, unknown to others, problem that has made him this way temporarily.
The third possibility is that we all read him wrong and the rebuttal just brought out the worst in him as a defense mechanism.

At the end of the day, it i how you handle the effects and determine a reaction that should be important to you and will make or break the rest of your day.
My consultation fee is 3 fingers of Macallan when I visit Chicago.:D

#12

Elk: i completely understand the position you and others have presented here. true…not responding/escalating these types of situations often makes the most sense. have tried “taking the high road” a handful of times in the past… it just doesn’t work for me >:) .



again…“sounds terrible”, “not musical”, “flat”, ect…are all acceptable/legitimate opinions in my world. i can/do understand some folks will honestly feel that way. However…“ask any dealer and they’ll tell you it’s a pos”, “bose-like”, “you don’t know anything if you disagree” are not imho.



we all have different lines in the sand and different responses when those personal lines are crossed. not gonna pretend being confrontational and hostile is always the right way to go…but it works for me.



Gordon: i would never have replied if he hadn’t asked for replies. “has anyone else a-b’d?” and “did your experience mirror mine?” is what i replied to (without any derogatory/over the top spite-fullness). did so to make sure others reading the thread would know differing opinions did exist. Gordon, your comments are valid and your consideration of others and their circumstances are enviable…but it just isn’t me. i have no pity or will to understand/tolerate people who disregard my thoughts/opinions as being worthless/meaningless (i can be wrong though). i’m 50 so doubt “growing out” of this behavior will ever happen. or maybe you could recommend some meditation for me??..unless i’m too far gone for that?? ^:)^





#13

Ever try to reason with a drunk? It is an exercise in futility. Similarly, responding to those who seek to provoke and are not interested in the truth be it subjective or otherwise, is doomed to bear no fruit. Anyone who speaks in absolutes in this regard is either ignorant or has not lived long in this world. In my experience trolls are to be seen and not responded to no matter how desperate their manner of provocation.


#14
Ever try to reason with a drunk? It is an exercise in futility. Similarly, responding to those who seek to provoke and are not interested in the truth be it subjective or otherwise, is doomed to bear no fruit. Anyone who speaks in absolutes in this regard is either ignorant or has not lived long in this world. In my experience trolls are to be seen and not responded to no matter how desperate their manner of provocation.


Exactly my sentiments. Absolute statements in this context are designed to stir anger, which is what the troll feeds on. Starve the troll.


#15

maybe he is a troll??..i didn’t see him as one. probably wouldn’t have replied at all if i thought he was trolling. my take was again…an arrogant narcissist who lives in a bubble and thinks he knows what is best for everyone…and his thoughts/beliefs override everyone else s. i consider it a duty to address/confront such people … but maybe i read him wrong and he is just a troll??. could be?





#16
Levi said: . . . an arrogant narcissist who lives in a bubble and thinks he knows what is best for everyone . . .

Probably this, and more. :)

What do you expect to accomplish by confronting him? You will not change his behavior. He knows he is obnoxious and is pushing buttons; he chose to write what he did for this very reason.

On the other hand, if it makes you feel better perhaps it is a reasonable course of action. You certainly will do him no harm.

I find that focusing on the topic of discussion to be the best course. Responding in kind is both counter-productive and harms me through my internalization of the interchange. Of course, others are different from me and may find venting liberating and cleansing.

Similarly, while driving I find that not reacting in any fashion to the obnoxious driver is the best - not a single gesture, face or word. I find I easily let go of the event in this way.

If I react, I give the act and the jerk power - even if the reaction is one he will never see - and I retain the event for at least part of the day. I prefer to forget.

#17

So I called “Dave Weinstein” and asked WTF.

Turns out he is an orphan and was abused as a child in the orphanage. His dog [his only friend] passed away last week and that 3rd lump just turned out to be malignant. He spent 3 years in Kandahar as a PVT under an abusive Sgt and used all his earnings as a male prostitute to buy a fancy audio system and it refuses to play gapless. geeeze, no wonder!

More seriously…

He appears to be a new poster [September 2013] with only 2 posts so far. So, perhaps suffering from Newbie-Overachiever syndrome.

Ya never know.


#18
Elk said: If I react, I give the act and the jerk power - even if the reaction is one he will never see - and I retain the event for at least part of the day. I prefer to forget.


Wise words Yoda.

#19

And who know, he may be right, it sounds better in his room on his speakers and his amp/cables. That's why I made the comment previously that there's no real point to argue, as the units he compared with did make up for the defficiencies in his setup. Not worth getting excited over, IMHO.



--SSW


#20
Gordon said: Wise words Yoda.

:)

No idea if this is universal, I have.

Probably not. It fascinates me however that no reaction whatsoever removes all negativity from the event.

Wa retained.