Why do power cables affect sound when there's a regenerator in play?

@davida, that’s the glitz that got me interested in trying out the Pangeas. Unfortunately, it didn’t integrate well with my system.

Sorry to hear that…the old addage is true ymmv

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Must admit the whole power cable thing is interesting and almost confusing at times, I’ve decided the key is probably not to overthink it and just accepted it. :upside_down_face:

I recently grab 5 Audience power cables from the Cable Co, there was a mixture of HP and LP cords. As these where show demo / Used cords I also got a couple sent back to Audience for the upgrades to the Furutech connectors and got one cut to 2 x 1.5m and re terminated in the original Cardas connectors (LP cord) so the cords where run in just new connectors. When i received them plugged all the new ones in knew burn in would be needed new connectors old cord shouldn’t be that long…

Being in Australia hadn’t heard these and rely on Robert and the cable Co (have for over 20 years) as we don’t have the luxury of the library i miss America just for that alone :slight_smile: and to be honest he has never let me down. Well at 200 hours of constant running I started to listen and started to regret the purchase, I would sit down and go yep that’s good soundstage depth increased and the improvements where really noticable - great purchase, the next night nah that’s so not good… started to thinks about resell value …

I then realized i had one used Audience cord in the cupboard (for my next purchase) that originally had furutech plugs / Show completely run in- swapped out one feeding the p20 and all of a sudden it was all back the depth… I would have thought after 200 hours on the others they would have been right to go … Ended up finding the best place for the run in cable was the amp but was surprised the difference it made just on the change feeding the P20. Guessing its just a matter of time until the other start behaving the same way but certainly from this experience i can verify the cord feeding the p20 is that important to the sound of the whole system.

anyone got some clues around accelerating burnin ?

also got me thinking that when the rest of the system is locked in the fine tuning you could do with powercords might be an interesting …

aangen you where right its a massive rabbit hole :wink:

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@aangen and I curse each other every once and a while for egging each other on towards high end power chords. Haven’t been disappointed yet in this rabbit hole

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Man’s ability to detect, measure and quantities things is always improving, and he will never get to the point where improvement isn’t possible. Heck, it wasn’t that long ago that quarks were discovered and their existence made measurable, and yet, they have existed since to birth of the universe. Proof that “if you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist” is a totally BS concept. One day we might be able to measure why cables that currently measure identical can sound so different. If mankind’s skills to detect then measure evolve enough, anyway. I just hope it’s during my lifetime. I’m 69, and want to be able to tell the naysayers “I TOLD YOU SO!!!’.

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It definitely made very noticeable differences to my Parasound Integrated, my PP P3 and my PP P12.

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We shouldn’t forget the accuracy spec of the measurement tool being used.
Another way to look at an accuracy spec is a measurement of the test instrument’s acceptable error.
And accuracy is often not as important as repeatability.
And the methodology of the technician using the instrument and making the measurement.
Having spent a lifetime in precision industrial measurements, I could go on for hours.

I’d argue that the above quote is right, but its wrong. It’s based on an assumption similar to saying that two cars are the same because they both go 0-60 in 4 seconds. I think the real problem with measurement is much deeper than that. I’m not trying to troll to ignite a debate so hear me out…

The most fundamental problem with the entire cable debate is that if you don’t know what/how to test, you can’t measure anything meaningful. When you place a cable between two components, you’re adding an inductance, a capacitance, resistance, and the insulation (LCRG - all of which affects the EM wave traveling down the cable) to the composite circuit. If you know the measured values of these items you can show (at least mathematically) that the cables are different. But the differences are extraordinarily small and it stretches anyone’s credulity to conclude that the cable should sound different. Thus we have statements to the effect that “the cables are the same because they measure the same”. But these measurement are for the cable, not the components added to the system.

However, LCRG measured cable values relative to the LCRG values of the components you are connecting may produce a composite circuit with a multitude of sub-optimal effects. If you could do a complete circuit analysis where the cable was treated as a component in the entire system, I’m convinced you could not only measure differences, you could correlate them to the listening tests. I’ve read one such paper on speaker cables (slightly off topic) that does exactly that and goes on to show graphs illustrating the effect of cable inductance on harmonic distortion when the cables are used in their intended environment. The author made clear that the cables were virtually the same when tested in isolation but produced different sound (and measured values) within the system.

It seems clear that nobody is going to spend several tens of thousand dollars for laboratory quality audio measurement and tests in their own living room to test cables when a listening test is a no-cost option. So while creating tests and evaluating results is the key, I’m confident that that the tests and measurements we’d like to have for audio cables will never exist. Think about your example of quarks. How long did it take scientists to create the test harness (accelerators) and measurement devices necessary to “see” a quark. If that level of effort were applied to audio, we’d have the measurements and they’d correlate to listening tests - but I’m not sure anybody would get a Nobel. Since it’s never going to happen, we’ll continue to use the cables that sound best in our system. Enjoy the music.

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He is funny when it comes to cables, funny in a dumb way so it’s not something positive. LOOL

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