The AC 12 like a lot of other high performance cables is a serious 8 gauge cable… the current draw from a DS will never really break it in. If you don’t have access to a Cable Cooker then you should break in the AC 12 on something that will pull lots of juice through it. The best thing I’ve found is to use a portable fan on high speed…You will need an adaptor to make this work…
something like this:
This is an innocent question, I swear. How does current “break in” a cable? What is happening to change the cable’s metallic structure? Or do I misunderstand what is meant by “break in” or “run in”? Can “break in” be measured in some way? I’m comfortable with unknowns, if that’s what it is.
This is a practical question, because I have an AC12 on my DirectStream also.
This topic is up in the heavens as a divine propergation. But I do want to read some answers
Can open. Worms everywhere.
Cable break-in is one of many spiritual practices of audiophilia. Break-in is itself an article of faith; any potential mechanism, delicious speculation.
Discuss.
Okay, sorry I asked. I was genuinely curious if there was some explanation for the idea. Not trying to open a can of worms or start an epistemological issue. I will “break in” my AC12 for many years, most likely, so if break in exists, it will eventually happen. 
Absolutely do not be sorry; it is a fair, honest question. But with no rational, demonstrable answer.
Leaving aside whether break-in even exists.
palladio said This is an innocent question, I swear. How does current "break in" a cable? What is happening to change the cable's metallic structure? Or do I misunderstand what is meant by "break in" or "run in"? Can "break in" be measured in some way? I'm comfortable with unknowns, if that's what it is.This is a practical question, because I have an AC12 on my DirectStream also.
Let’s take one factor: Molecules (and parts of molecules) are much freer to move in things other than metals (e.g. insulation and dielectrics). The molecules that are dipoles (the ones that have more positive charge on one “side” than the other) are affected by a changing electric field. It takes some energy to move those molecules and that energy comes from the signal in the wire. At some later time that energy is released back to the wire. This phenomenon is called dielectric absorption and you can look up as much as you want about it. Tho dielectric absorption in capacitors is usually thought of as a long term process, it also happens in much shorter time spans. If those time spans are in the audio frequencies we have a problem. No one really disputes this, BUT many dispute whether the levels we are talking about are significant. If you look at a capacitor spec or a dielectric spec they’ll often have a spec for loss tangent - that’s a measurement of dielectric absorption. (see http://www.sigcon.com/Pubs/news/4_5.htm, BTW Dr. Howard Johnson knows his stuff and writes clearly, its worth wading around his site http://www.sigcon.com for a lot of interesting material.)
Anyway by stressing a wire (or actually more likely it’s insulation) with either the signal it’s going to see for a long time or a higher signal level for a shorter time you can sometimes find a new steady state where the molecules come to rest so that they aren’t as free to move and cause dielectric absorption. Once again no one really disputes that this happens, they just argue whether it’s a significant effect.
-Ted
Thanks, Ted. A wonderfully cogent summary.
I had forgotten about Dr. Johnson’s site and his delightfully subtitled books, such as High-Speed Digital Design: A Handbook of Black Magic.
Palladio, this is a good site to raise such questions. This is a pretty respectful group, willing to consider controversial topics.
I have only one comment to run in or breakin. Why does it always get better after time. Even if some claim it can get worse before it gets better or broken in.
What puzzles me as we are into very small amounts of change.
Here is one question almost anything in our electrictronics spec wise gets worse over time meaning caps start to degrade
now I know it’s very small but so is any dialectric change as well.
alrainbow said I have only one comment to run in or breakin. Why does it always get better after time. Even if some claim it can get worse before it gets better or broken in.Not all processes are random or unguided. Many processes in nature are asymptotic, that is their speed is related to how close they are to the goal. Things measured in 1/2 lives are good example - each time unit 1/2 of them decay (or whatever) - this process never finishes (well until only a few atoms/molecules are left) but after a while the amount of change that's left isn't significant. Many chemical reactions or physical processes are driven by heat and they are asymptotic. You have to wait a long time or heat things up to speed things along. In audio we confound "burn-in" with "break-in" just because most of the processes that are asymptotic in audio are sped up with heat. Some obvious ones in audio land are driving out solvents (for example from cleaning a board or the manufacturing process of components), oxidation (forming "rust"), deformation of plastics (dielectrics, especially Teflon), etc. Not that not all of these prosseses are "good" but manufacturers will try to build their components to last longer or to get better with age if they can rather than designing them to fail faster with age.What puzzles me as we are into very small amounts of change.
Here is one question almost anything in our electrictronics spec wise gets worse over time meaning caps start to degrade
now I know it’s very small but so is any dialectric change as well.
An couple of examples of things getting worse with age are corrosion of our connectors/plugs and electrolytic capacitors degrading with heat or time. But many things that need to be done to manufacture things are asymptotic and if the manufacturer waited until those processes were done, well they’d be waiting forever. Most of the time customers won’t complain about things getting better with time so those things aren’t something the manufacturer cares about as much.
Now paul did a post t all about a shot in the arm aboutb connections. But for me Another puzzling matter. As all of our electrical connections are done in two matters
one bein soldered or welded
next and most common is preasure. Now this is what you and Paul Are posting about and the oxidation concept makes sense
except where the contact is made with pressure there is little to none made. Now there can be a electrolasis of sorts for disamaler metals.
But givern our entire hi current electrical system is mostly based simply on pressure and most likely never being redone as paul or you state.why . Now given the pressure on our wiring connections is higher but the premis still stands why audio is different ??? Get my point
and I am not claiming anyone , you or paul is wrong it’s just from my view it makes no sense. If one could measure an increase in DC resistance or impedance change woth frequency applied It would be more subjective
but on audio it’s more myth then specs.
Just some thoughts and not meant to claim anything your saying is wrong
Al
Al, You are taking my posts on this matter to literally. There is certainly oxidation making connections worse, AC, RCA, AES, etc. Good choice of metals can lessen the effect. For example oxides of silver conduct so oxidizing silver isn’t as much of a problem as oxidizing copper. Never-the-less simply unplugging and replugging everything in a system can make a significant difference in the sound quality of that system. The higher the voltage the less oxidation matters - the power distribution system is high voltage, not high current.
If one thinks that there’s a difference between 16 bit audio and 24 bit audio, then we are talking about changes down around -100dB being significant. Video, let alone power don’t care about differences at this level at all.
There is a lot of superstitious behavior in audio: this is to be expected. It’s completely normal in humans to experience things differently every time they happen, we are always hearing new stuff when we relisten to music, seeing new things when we watch a movie again, etc. Our brains are looking for novelty and throwing away anything that’s identical to what it’s experienced before. The result in audio is that listening to the same cable in an A/B test will almost always sound different, let alone listening to two different cables. People don’t take enough care when comparing things in audio systems and make “bad” decisions all of the time. In reality what matters is whether one enjoys a new thing not whether it’s really “better”.
Loss tangent is measureable and it is the change in capacitance at various frequencies, it’s reported for almost any dielectric and almost any capacitor - it is significant but people don’t seem to care about it. I submit for your consideration that many more things in audio are quantifiable (and are quantified!) than most people think - it just takes a lot of work to look at thirty different things that are different between two cables and predict which will things are the most significant, let alone whether a given person will think one sounds better than another.
Put an entirely different way: you can in principle use QED (quantum electrodynamics - the most accurate scientific theory we have ever come up with) to predict chemistry, and, for arguments sake, use chemistry to predict biology and biology to predict evolution, but in reality it’s easier to just experiment in each domain and take them on their own merits… Using the specs and measuring in audio is much more complicated than just listening for oneself.
Think about trying to predict something as simple as the sound level at a given place in your listening room - you need to model your whole room: dimensions/angles, etc, reflectivity and absorptions of all materials, resonances of every surface… of everything in your room. No one does that. Just listen or stick up a mic.
To predict interferences from ground loops is not hard in principal: but once again you need to measure everything about all of the wires, conductors, etc in your whole room (or actually the whole house or neighborhood), put all of the physical dimensions, mechanical specs, electrical specs, etc. into a field solver and see what happens. What would you do with the answer? Well you need to see how everything in your system reacts to that field! It’s all doable, but as impractical as predicting, say, what sex your daughter will be from quantum mechanics.
Wonderful post.
We need a “Best of” compilation.
Ted great posts. And filled with info for me and others.
But there is one comment that may be wrong. Our electrical system is high current only long distance is high voltage low current in perspective.
Typical voltage in homes is a nominal 120 volts and can be at up to 200 amps Ina typical home.
Branch wiring is typical limited to 20 amps but same voltage 120 nominal.
My resoning for oxidation is based on a simple wire nut or screw type terminal.
Now audio is relatively low current and low voltage with most connection
but as much as I do know your right in all your ideas inansire if it as you do know far more then me or most here.
Mine final thought is though most connections inside our audio components is filled with simple push on connectors do any of us take our equipment apart of not why the rca and the like. Now given these outside terminal connections are of many different type metals where the ones inside are mated with the same types
al
Ted Smith said Al, You are taking my posts on this matter to literally. There is certainly oxidation making connections worse, AC, RCA, AES, etc. Good choice of metals can lessen the effect. For example oxides of silver conduct so oxidizing silver isn't as much of a problem as oxidizing copper. Never-the-less simply unplugging and replugging everything in a system can make a significant difference in the sound quality of that system. The higher the voltage the less oxidation matters - the power distribution system is high voltage, not high current.If one thinks that there’s a difference between 16 bit audio and 24 bit audio, then we are talking about changes down around -100dB being significant. Video, let alone power don’t care about differences at this level at all.
There is a lot of superstitious behavior in audio: this is to be expected. It’s completely normal in humans to experience things differently every time they happen, we are always hearing new stuff when we relisten to music, seeing new things when we watch a movie again, etc. Our brains are looking for novelty and throwing away anything that’s identical to what it’s experienced before. The result in audio is that listening to the same cable in an A/B test will almost always sound different, let alone listening to two different cables. People don’t take enough care when comparing things in audio systems and make “bad” decisions all of the time. In reality what matters is whether one enjoys a new thing not whether it’s really “better”.
Loss tangent is measureable and it is the change in capacitance at various frequencies, it’s reported for almost any dielectric and almost any capacitor - it is significant but people don’t seem to care about it. I submit for your consideration that many more things in audio are quantifiable (and are quantified!) than most people think - it just takes a lot of work to look at thirty different things that are different between two cables and predict which will things are the most significant, let alone whether a given person will think one sounds better than another.
Put an entirely different way: you can in principle use QED (quantum electrodynamics - the most accurate scientific theory we have ever come up with) to predict chemistry, and, for arguments sake, use chemistry to predict biology and biology to predict evolution, but in reality it’s easier to just experiment in each domain and take them on their own merits… Using the specs and measuring in audio is much more complicated than just listening for oneself.
Think about trying to predict something as simple as the sound level at a given place in your listening room - you need to model your whole room: dimensions/angles, etc, reflectivity and absorptions of all materials, resonances of every surface… of everything in your room. No one does that. Just listen or stick up a mic.
To predict interferences from ground loops is not hard in principal: but once again you need to measure everything about all of the wires, conductors, etc in your whole room (or actually the whole house or neighborhood), put all of the physical dimensions, mechanical specs, electrical specs, etc. into a field solver and see what happens. What would you do with the answer? Well you need to see how everything in your system reacts to that field! It’s all doable, but as impractical as predicting, say, what sex your daughter will be from quantum mechanics.
Al, you are correct that there are many interconnections in our power distribution.
I know a lot of people that crimp and solder the internal connections. A good crimp is better than solder, but soldering a crimp is more reliable. I also know some who direct wire their devices into the wall which I think is both morally wrong and short sighted for a lot of reasons, but it is undeniably good for the audio
Also FWIW when we put in my dedicated lines, we don’t have any splices, joints, etc. between the breaker box and the outlets. Each connection (whether screwed, press fit or soldered) in your house wiring on the way to your system has an audible effect for many people. It takes some work to follow the electrical code and have a direct run from each dedicated outlet back to the breaker box, but it’s worth it.
Wow. Ted, amazing work. Thank you. I too learned a lot.
Hello All,
I use stock cable, which were delivered with the component in my set.
I tried a lot of really expensive cable, but could not hear any differences.
Maybe my set ist too old to hear the differences.
I got:
Turntable : Technics SP10 MK III - SAEC SBX-3 - SAEC WE-407/23 - Highphonic mc-d15 / Grado Labs Signature Tonearm - Grado Gold PU
Digital Sources: OPPO 105D and Micro Seiki CD-M2000X CD-Player
DAC: Wadia 121
Pre-Amp: Audio Research SP 11 MKII
Power-Amp: Audio Research D79
Loudspeakers: N.E.A.R. 50Me II Loudspeakers
As you see, these are all “vintage” products, but they make a lot of fun.
Cheers
Ted Smith said "Our brains are looking for novelty and throwing away anything that's identical to what it's experienced before. The result in audio is that listening to the same cable in an A/B test will almost always sound different, let alone listening to two different cables."Hearing is plastic. It is constantly changing in response to what we hear (and see!) on time scales ranging from milliseconds to a lifetime. Just as in measurement, if you want to know a consistent truth, you need an unchanging reference to "calibrate" your hearing. That is why I turn to acoustic musicians, people who hear music untainted by any cables for hours every day since childhood.
They hear flaws in reproduction systems that overwhelm the differences between interconnects. Because they don’t spend time comparing speakers, they lump them all in a scale of 1 to five, where ten is real music. Power connections make less than .05 points difference on this scale, so the relative humidity is probably more significant to consistent results and listening tests are bias and chance. I don’t deny you can hear a difference - I am saying there are likely ten things you need to fix before you can say whether the difference in AC wiring makes your system more accurate or less.
The first thing you need to do is to listen to acoustic music before you do a listening test. I buy recordings at acoustic concerts and then play a sample when I get home. This conditions hearing by establishing a reference close enough in time that your hearing does not revert to daily mode. This changed my relation to audio completely.
If you do not have frequent enough acoustic concerts in reasonable travel distance, I suggest it is a buyers’ market for used instruments. You can get a piano in playable condition for less than a set of cables. If that is not high enough SAF, try guitar, dulcimer or lap harp like a Kantele.
Very good post and some thing I can hang my hat on. Too many golden ears confusing my old ears.
May 8 year old then 7 starting taking up piano this changed my reference point as well even on 60k headphone setup dac and all. There was no real piano playing to my ears. Although we do get pretty close wth some recordings.
Great read