Good luck Icono-guys! Have a great Axpona time, I’m sure you’ll have success and I wish you all the hard work done will be repaid!
1 Like
Any M1200s owner here? With your amps are you using spade or banana Iconoclast connectors (Series 1 or 2 indifferently)?
If spades, which size in your experience are fitting better the M1200s binding posts?
Going bi-wire (with REL spades) I’m trying to find out which kind of termination combo might work better - Series 1 bass + Series 2 high + BAV REL cables to be connected to M1200s.
Very appreciate any suggestion (and pics). Thanks.
1 Like
Galen, do you think this can be used for iconoclast speakers and Rel sub cables? The furutech angled locking banana connectors:
For me this would be best way to connect the rel and the speakers since they can be stacked. I sometime move cable from amp to amp and spades slow me down 
I don’t recommend screw terminal connections except where 100% necessary (our five-way binding posts). They will work as designed, but that involves set-screws that I detest as they loosen too easy. A binding post goes onto a SPADE or banana made for a strong reliable connection. A set-screw into a tinned lead is not a reliable connection. If they could be silver soldered, permanently, they will work.
Best,
Galen
1 Like
Thanks Galen, I would prefer silver solder too, Maybe opening of the set screws is large enough for a soldering tip? if not I think modification would be fairly easy with a dremel to open up the end there for proper soldering and cover with heat shrinks.
All, here is a note in my T+A M40 amps manual. Yep, it defines the use of TWO speaker cable in PARALLEL. I’ve covered the aspects of this in my tech paper on parallel speaker cables, and what it does. This isn’t “new” at all. Nice that T+A points this out, few know to let us audiophiles in on an easy performance upgrade.
I actually DOUBLE parallel my leads in high power mode, but if you have a SINGLE five-way post’s on your speakers you can still parallel IDENTICAL leads like this to improve performance.
I use the series II on the tweeter/mid terminal and the series I on the bass speaker terminals. This is the “ideal” set-up to maximize the performance, but it isn’t “unknown” to equipment vendors even if few acknowledge it.
T+A M40 HV manual entry…
This is an easy upgrade, too. The technique works with ALL cable, just use identical versions in parallel, and speakers. It isn’t just ICONOCLAST. And yes, even lamp cord is better parallel because it drops the impedance to the speaker by half. Think that this it is a gimmick? T+A sure doesn’t and the data supports the technique. For this that want the proof, ask me and I’ll send the lab report on exactly this with several cable types from zip cord to ICONOCLAST.
http://www.iconoclastcable.com/blog/
Don’t use this with flat ribbon type speaker cables with extraordinarily high capacitance. These are just long capacitors called speaker cables. Sure, they have low inductance and DCR, duh! They can blow-up and make many amps oscillate with way too much capacitive reactance for the feedback systems to manage. Paralleling drops the impedance and inductance to half, but it DOUBLES the capacitance. Double bi-wire doubles it again.
Some zero feedback amps need a narrow range of L and C to prevent oscillations (cable length and bulk L and C values are limited). The idea is the removal of circuit feedback eclipses feedback designs with “better” cables. As long as the amp/cable/speaker network is known, this can work. NEVER change the cables from the manufacture’s list of tested products, though. Well, unless you want to watch Cheech and Chong “Up In Smoke”.
Keep lengths reasonable and we’re fine. ICONOCLAST is designed as low cap so we can do exactly this and be OK (45 pf/foot series I and 65 pf/foot series II). Of course, keep the lead LENGTH appropriate, 10 feet or less. This is all explained in the lab report, with the data to illustrate exactly what is going on. We’re all about the DATA, and getting you a best case method to improve your systems at a nominal cost.
Best,
Galen
See you at the AXPONA show!
2 Likes
Two issues, they aren’t made for the high heat to flow lead free silver solder, all the plastic will melt. And, manufacturer’s frown on changing their product form/fit/function. I don’t blame them. When stuff gets off-center, who is at fault? The OEM of the connector for making it, us for changing it, or you for asking for it?
1 Like
Galen, you may recall that I’m upgrading my Gryphon Diablo 300 to the Gryphon Essence Pre & Stereo amp.
Highlighted spec’s;
Global negative feedback is non-existent
With an ultra-wide frequency bandwidth (0.5 Hz – 350 kHz, +0 dB, -3 dB)
Gryphon makes the following comments viz cables;
Gryphon recommends using speaker cables with a low
capacitance and a wide bandwidth in order to match the
specs of the amplifier’s bandwidth and output impedance.
I’m very happy with my Iconoclast OFE (Series 1) cables with my Diablo 300, but will they pass muster with the Essence Stereo’s spec’s?
Exactly correct. Two five footers in parallel are the same total capacitance as one ten footer as an example.
What amplifiers need to spec is the total capacitive cable load allowed, and not to isolate it to a “design”. There is no set capacitance a coaxial design has, it’s all in the Do/Di ratio the designer picks. A 93-ohm design is way lower than a 50-ohm design as far as capacitance.
I set the total capacitance pretty low so most all, not every, amp using ten feet or so will be fine. If you use 4 footers to mono amps, even double bi-wire is OK on most amps. The M40-HV are zero feed back design. But NOT every amp that is zero feedback acts the same. The total BW and damping factor are impacted by the cable + speaker’s reactance so you really need to know the total reactive load the AMP sees. It has no idea what’s the cable or the speaker, just the bulk load. A set of planer magnetic versus electrostatic speakers will be pretty different loads, by a good margin.
Some designers that make the AMP/ cable spec/ speaker like Vandersteen have a narrower table of application for proper cables to keep the amp doing it’s thing. They KNOW exactly what the amp/cable/speaker system is so they can do this reliably. The cable has to fall into what’s left after the speaker’s influences on the amplifier.
For the best possible cable system, amplifiers really need to document the reactive properties the amplifier is designed around. Speaker’s too, need to be better documented as the what the bulk R, L and C load is worst case. Passive speakers should have flat L and C with frequency like cables. Yes, the speaker’s impedance will vary based on the VP dropping as frequency goes down, but the L and C values will be stable across frequency so L and C could be speced.
Right now you have to guess with the amp/cable/speaker and yes, this does make the network sound different and it may NOT be the “cable” at all, but the amps instability with a specific cable and speaker. We listen to the entire “system” after all.
ICONOCLAST just tries to offer a most benign capacitance to most all ampifiers in typical lengths and to achieve the low frequency impedance values and VP flattening to make a more neutral measured and calculated design. Both aspects influence how the cable and ampifier drive the speaker.
Long story short, your vendor talks about the reactance problem, but doesn’t address it in any useful way to make sure you are inside the “spec” and to mitigate it.
Best,
Galen
2 Likes
Someone asked how to avoid the reactance / cable/ amp / speaker issue 100%. Easy, use powered speakers!
Galen
1 Like
Galen,
Thanks for your detailed response, as always.
As you say, it would be preferable for consumers to know far more detail from the manufacturers viz the design/spec’s of their amps, so that we can make an informed decision regarding loudspeaker cable purchases.
At the risk of being overly cynical, perhaps there’s an element of obfuscation on the manufacturers’ part, in order to encourage consumers to purchase the manufacturers’ own cable offering(s)…?!
In any event, I’m hopeful that my newly upgraded ‘entire system’ will perform as anticipated…
if not better! 
I shouldn’t have to wait too much longer as, apparently, my new gear is scheduled to arrive in a week or two…
Good morning to all. The Iconoclast team starts moving into Chicago tomorrow morning. I’ve been absent for a while due to a difficult family loss. I’m back as of today but will not attend Axpona. Someone has to mind the store. We will have a nice presence at Axpona this year and we have some very exciting reviews in process.
Please, if you are at Axpona plan to come by and say hello. Galen’s presentation is great especially with the limited time allowed. The presentation is to be given on 2-seperate days so try to hear him deliver fact based design information.
Our locations and the time for Galen’s presentation are all available on the Axpona site and will be on directories at the show.
Travel safely and enjoy what should be a “great” event.
Bob
9 Likes
Condolences, Bob. Family is first. This other stuff can sort itself out.
4 Likes
Thank you. Tell your family how much you love them every chance you get! You just never know.
4 Likes
Indeed, family first. Take care of yourself and the ones you love. Speaking of a little love, Paul’s post today was about the advantages of bi-wiring. I love the way the SPTPC Series II and Series I sing in my system.
2 Likes
This proves my theory! Diablo 300= gateway drug! Congrats and enjoy!
2 Likes
Thank you.
Clearly, I’m not in a position to disprove your theory!
I’m still waiting for a delivery date…
Hopefully, it won’t be too much longer!
1 Like
Any show reports from Axpona? I here it was very, very well attended and busy and that Galen’s presentations were well attended.
There’s a few posts in this topic. Scroll down until you get to Thursday.
1 Like
Met Galen, Jeff, and the Icono crew Saturday afternoon. Wonderful, and a great time! Sadly, I missed the presentation.
1 Like