Patent rights and the custom tooling required could be an impediment.
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For sure. It’s just a dream.
Dead on point. Belden’s legal department is massive and relentless. Galen helps legal write the patents and they are impressive. The machines, the set up and the ability to make the machines perform is an amazing process. Silver plating of the proper thickness provides the same benefit as a solid conductor on speaker cable.
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I watched Galen’s presentation this weekend. It was very interesting to see the development of the Iconoclast line spelled out bit by bit. I had seen a similar presentation before but a little more of the info stuck this time.
Also interesting to see that the wire and dielectric tech was developed by Ma Bell over 100 years ago. That must have been quite a feat fixing the delay in the different pitches in a vocal transmission across analog phone lines.
I think it was called “group delay” but working from memory only so I could be way off base.
And of course he is right on every point. You simply can’t hide from science and Mother Nature always wins every argument without even trying.
I love my Iconoclast cables.
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Yes, they seem to strike a fine balance between performance and price. Can one do better, certainly. It comes down to sonic priorities, and how much one is willing to invest in wire.
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For me they are exotic enough to do the job but also sensibly priced with solid physics backing up the design.
I’m sure the Stealth and Inakustik are “better” as both are also based on proven designs and science but at a higher level than I feel the need for. And I don’t wan’t to find out either. 
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On fuses, equipment, power cables, or RF and EMI additional absorption or speaker movement I have yet to not hear the slightest changes anywhere in my system using Iconoclast ICs and speaker wires. That to me is transparency
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No, you’re right. Here is the WILKI reference to the early Bell days and correcting delay lines. A series of inductive/capacitive ladders were used to try to fix the frequency time delay in long communication lines and improve voice quality. - Analog delay line - Wikipedia
In 1924, Robert Mathes of Bell Telephone Laboratories filed a broad patent covering essentially all electromechanical delay lines, but focusing on acoustic delay lines where an air column confined to a pipe served as the mechanical medium, and a telephone receiver at one end and a telephone transmitter at the other end served as the electromechanical transducers.[4] Mathes was motivated by the problem of echo suppression on long-distance telephone lines, and his patent clearly explained the fundamental relationship between inductor–capacitor ladder networks and mechanical elastic delay lines such as his acoustic line.
Best,
Galen
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Depends on who you ask. A Lamborghini is supposed to be better than a Lexus. I prefer the Lexus. You have to live with the thing year after year. To each their own.
Synergy always plays into the end result. Galen’s designs, Belden’s USA manufacturing, full disclosure, documentation and data for all cable assemblies, BJC termination/testing, communication and customer service make for a darn good offering. The entire team is genuinely passionate for what we do!
All we say is “listen for yourself, and decide.” No risk.
We did recently get a nice order from Grammy Award winning mastering engineer Dave McNair. Dave is working a section at a time to have “Iconoclast” wiring for his studio.
We are grateful for the positive comments that we see posted here. You are our marketing department. Thank you!
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Yes “better” is an unknown and unproven quantity by me for sure.
Galen had mentioned that there was room to improve but at a huge cost and not worth the effort as it would be an exponential increase in cost.
I am perfectly happy with the science and manufacturing prowess of what’s behind the Belden / BAV / Iconoclast lineup and have no desire to go farther. It’s a perfect fit for the 99% like me.
I cant see the economy in a mastering studio or any other pro level audio business needing anything more complex than the products you sell.
By the way how is the rehab going?
Vern
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Good morning and thank you Vern! Eyes and ears of the beholder. To improve “might be” be minor incremental at “significant” cost. We never know what the ingredients and recipe of a new design will bring until it’s actually produced.
Belden’s facilities in Richmond, IN provide what most believe are the most sophisticated cable design, testing and manufacturing resources on the planet. The Series II speaker cable design was years in process. Then it came time to “make it.” Lots of lots of days and hours were spent tweaking and adjusting with Galen and his plant team before the “hallelujah” moment finally came. Incredible cable assemblies that are well within reach of most audiophiles.
One month yesterday for the shoulder replacement. Rehab is going great. My shoulder hurts!
Thank you for asking.
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I just say they are badass cables.
As painful as rehab is if you do at least the minimum of what they say it will pay you back in spades.
Glad to hear the process was successful so far.
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For those of you who have a relatively extensive length of internal wire in the speakers, let’s say a meter even, and you’re using, say, 2 meter Iconoclasts… You are now getting only “about” 2/3 of the benefits that the design allows for. That is, if the internal wire isn’t particularly designed for a linear propagation velocity across the audio band, and few are.
To get to know fully what Iconoclast brings to the table, I think it absolutely should be Iconoclast all the way from amp terminals to the potential crossover and from there to the drivers.
I see this as a potentially notable issue that should be addressed by aforementioned modifications to speakers, that is if it doesn’t matter to void any warranties.
I’m evaluating for a bunch of reasons to move my MSB DAC to the rack on the front wall, it implies a longest AES/EBU XLR cable to be used to connect it to the PSA SACD Transport.
We are talking about 25-30 feet. In our 2 channell hifi world, is there a maximum length recommended for AES/EBU 110Ohm digital cables?
Which kind of Iconoclast cable do you suggest for that purpose (I’m already using all of your XLR UPOCC in my system).
Thanks in advance.
I just answered this question for someone.
For XLR figure, with a properly built cable, AES/EBU can run a length of up to 300 feet. RCA with BNC connectors and 75-Ohm unbalanced cables can transmit data more than 2,500 feet.
Yes the Series I XLR are best for digital. I use the TPC series I to go from my PS Audio Memory player to the T+A SD3100 HV DAC as an example. The series 1 is a 100-ohm nominal RF digital design; 101670 / (12.0pf * 85%) = 99.7 ohms. Don’t use the series II, that is a 75-ohm analog frequency design only.
AES/EBU will carry two audio channels pulses coded (PM) signals on a single XLR that is ~100-ohms nominal standard (AES/EBU, with its broad tolerance allows cables with impedances from 88 ohms to 132 ohms to be used. Standard analog audio cable impedance is 45 ohms to 70 ohms. This potential amount of mismatch can result in signal reflections and jitter causing bit errors at the receiver.) The series I was intended to be analog and digital, BOTH. Also, the BAV series could be used as analog or digital in pro studios with enhanced physical flexibility as a feature. The ICONOCLAST series I are “upgraded” for analog, as well as digital but forefits the flexibility.
For pure digital, the BAV series is the best as the AES/EBU error correct to bit perfect. There is no advantage to the series I until really long lengths where the slightly lower cap benefits. But if you ever want to use ANALOG later, the XLR series I ICONOCLAST optimizes the dielectric for analog so it runs BOTH but limits the ruggedness built-in to the BAV series that is necessary for pro audio.
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…if the internal wire isn’t particularly designed for a linear propagation velocity across the audio band, and few are…
Truth be told, no cables are perfectly linear Vp across frequency until RF. A designer can just mitigate the characteristics to be better through analog, but Vp still isn’t “linear”. That’s what physics left us with to work out.
Best,
Galen
Thank you very much Galen, got it!
Had an interesting question, and one that seems to make the rounds and is easily proven to be not true. The question is to use different sized insulated wires in a cable to carry lows and high frequencies.
The AWG size of the wires has nothing to do with the frequencies on a wire AWG size at all. The current will divide between the wire AWG sizes (assuming they are individually insulated from each other) based on the wire DCR. ALL of the frequency content will be on every wire. The current value will be what’s different between each AWG size, not the frequencies on the wire.
What will also be different, is the propagation velocity in each wire AWG based on the wire’s DCR and capacitance to ground. The equation Vp = SQRT(2* OMEGA/(R*C)) confirms each wire will have different built-in arrival time differences. Each “wire” will perform differently across frequency but all frequencies will be on each wire.
Another way to look at this, is if we used two different drives across the exact same frequency range. Each driver has a different sound, and will fight each other. Poor performance will be the result. No one would make a speaker like this. The frequencies will be applied to both drivers, and each will respond in kind based on the electromagnetic mechanical properties of the driver. The drives won’t “select” what frequencies to play the best, they will try to play everything applied to them. Same as any insulated wire in a cable.
When you hear a difference with mixed insulated wires it is indeed there, but it isn’t nearly as good as it should be because the cable speaks of many different voices with mixed AWG wires. To remove that problem, we need to use the SAME exact AWG wires in parallel and use the aggregate DCR for the bass frequencies, and the proper R and C balance of each individual insulated wire for the high frequencies. Frequencies do not avoid a wire based on AWG size at all, but the Vp alignment changes based on the wire DCR and capacitance to ground. The bass needs are mitigated by the aggregate DCR of all the wires in parallel. We need one common voice for top performance.
All ICONOCLAST uses the same AWG wire. Speaker cable use many 24 or 28 AWG insulated wires so that every wires is the same “voice” and in sufficient quantity to meet the overall current demands. IC cables use 25 AWG or 30 AWG, and no mixed signal wire sizes.
The current divides into each small wire based on DCR, two same sized wires will see the current split, three same sized wires will see it split into thirds so-on and so fourth. The upper frequencies Vp will be set based on the design parameters achieved through DCR and capacitance and this is what you think you “hear” as small wires use high frequencies. No, all frequencies use all the wires but the Vp alignment changes based on frequency in each wire. You have to manage the Vp alignment so that C is not too high and the cable’s open-short impedance is held in check as best possible. It just doesn’t happen.
The myth that a wire see “AWG” as a cross-over network for frequencies needs to be put to bed as just wrong. Wire size does matter, but it needs to be understood and used properly to make cable most linear across frequencies. This is one of the early principals I based ICONOCLAST on, and it sure makes the job harder but is necessary to provide a truly better design.
Edit - the Vp equation is a fitted type and can produce Vp results that are too low or too high with extreme R and C values. It is not “exact”. Common sense has to be exercised to realize we can’t have negative apples or apples going faster than the speed of light. The equations accuracy is in a narrow range and outside that we need a new equation. It can tell you what the “general” impact will be to C and R adjustments, though. Just graph the numbers and be aware of common physics as to the logic of the calculations.
Best,
Galen
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Wonderful information.
Thank you
Considering cable with considerable numbers of same AWG insulated wires, C-Marc cables from LessLoss seem quite interesting. Huge number of strands, though here their main touted purpose is noise reduction using the bucking-coil principle.
I emailed the CEO and asked if they had taken Vp into account - he could not provide data, instead suggesting that I carry such research on their cable on my own. Sadly don’t have a lab.
And of course Inakustik is another company providing this type of enamel-insulated mega-strand approach.
I’d love to know how these cables would compare to Iconoclast in Vp coherency. Very different geometries.