So what’s the best affordable i2s source now? Rpi 3 + Kali Reclocker + Audio GD I2S-to-HDMI??
I am totally a newb in raspberry. So I buy them and put together then it plays music. Am I right?
I would say I don’t know if Kali is OK for bitrates greater than 192Khz even for the 44/48Mhz version. Linvincible sounds sure that it will not work but do not give more explanation ;-).
Moode is using a recent Kernel 4.4, would it allow an I2S output without the restriction described in the above exchanges?
The fact is, on my RPI3 with Moode connected in USB to the PSAudio DS, I can read correctly my DSD128 files in DSD DoP. So I’m wondering why a RPI able to play DSD128 in DoP on its USB output would not be able to play DSD128 in DoP on its I2S output ?
Many questions 
Can’t say if the SQ of the RPI3 in USB is more or less good than my previous experience with a ZOtac CI320 (Celeron Quad Core, 4GB, Windows10 + Fidelizer + Jriver) in USB to DS. I kept the Zotac on my network to feed the RPI3 UPNP streamer with Moode.
For your question, yes buy a RPI3, install Moode or other compatible player, configure it, it’s straight forward. I got great improvement with an IFI Power 5V adapter.
Sorry I wanted to elaborate but got caught up in something else. My wife finally decided to finish the do it we started 9 months ago (and 12 days…)
so now that I’m a happy father of a big son 4.07kg) and all is well let’s get back to that I2S question.
I didn’t ask the raspberry foundation about the hardware limit of the I2S bus on the Pi2&3 but I asked Hardkernel about theirs for the Odroid C2 which is supposedly faster. The clock for the I2S bus on there supports 256fs (I didn’t find what the unit meant, maybe frame speed) so we can assume it’s about the same in the Pi.
to support a DSD128 signal, the I2S clock needs to support 384fs according to Ted. I thought 352.8 would have sufficed for a stereo signal at 176.4khz but since I don’t know how it works let’s trust Ted. Anyway that doesn’t make a difference for the Pi.
so there you go!
who wants to start a kickstarter for a board that would support more? And an optical network interface ;0)
charles
Congratulations Charles to both you and your wife!
Hi Charles, nice to see that Linvincible family is Expandable ^^ 
Congratulation to you and your wife too.
There’s something that I do not understand. The RPI has a dirty USB implementation, however I’m able to read my DSD128 files with Moode in USB (directly connected to the DS). So why the I2S would have such limitation ?
Until now with a Kali Reclocker limited at 192Khz this limitation makes sense. But now with the new implementation of the Kali Reclocker at 382Khz, it should work, no ?
How is the RPI USB controller fed? May be not by the I2S interface of the RPI, but something more veloce than the I2S implementation ?
I had some discussions with Audiophonics these days and they are preparing a I2S kit to upgrade a RPI based on a good reclocker and a LVDS HDMI interface. They did not test to go beyond 176khz but they tell me they’ll do it and let me know.
Things aren’t as simple as one might think and the real maximum rates supported are best gotten from the manufacturers. If you are curious here are some of the issues:
There are multiple things that are needed for a particular input to support a given sample rate / sample width. (For this post consider single rate DoP’ed DSD as 24/176.4k and double rate DSD as 24/352.8k.)
The analog bandwidth of the receivers may limit the input rate: TOSLink is speced at 24/96, but some work at higher rates, S/PDIF and AES/EBU can almost always do 24/192k, I2S isn’t standardized and you’ll have to check with the manufacturer about the maximum rate supported - tho you can probably count on 24/192k. The analog bandwidth of USB 2.0 Audio (and up) is so high there’s no problem here.
Another thing that matters are the clock rates supported. For S/PDIF, AES/EBU and TOSLink you need 32bits per sample or 64 bits per stereo sample so for, say, 24/192k you’ll need a bit rate of at least 192k * 64 = 12.288MHz. For these inputs it takes a clock that’s at least twice the bit rate to properly encode the data so for 24/192k you need a clock rate of 24.576Mz. For I2S there’s less overhead and you only need a clock of 24 * 192k (* 2 for stereo) for 24/192k which is 9.216MHz. For double rate DSD you’d need a clock of at least 224352.8k = 16.9344MHz.
The complication in some cases (e.g. the Raspberry Pi) is that they don’t have a dedicated audio output clock so they have to make one up from the clock they do have. If that clock isn’t an exact multiple of the clock that’s needed (which is the case for the Pi) then dividing the clock down will cause a lot of jitter, if the needed clock is too close to the clock that’s available there will be so much jitter that the signal can’t be received by some (or most) I2S receivers.
In the case cited above, even tho raw DSD could be sent by the hardware, the DoP version (which requires a clock that’s at least 1.5 time higher) can’t. Still for anything that supports USB, there’s usually a separate clock available for USB which than can handle essentially all possible stereo audio.
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Thank you Ted. As usual your answers are going beyond our expectation
I’ll try to find out if the PI3 has a separate clock for the USB. Interesting…
So considering all these aspects, sounds that USB for the RPI should be the best output available on the RPI for HiRes files even with its not optimal implementation (same bus shared with the LAN). However, If we reconsider the reclocker option, some (like Kali) embeds a FIFO buffer. That let’s me think that even if the PI clock is not well synchronized with the target frequency, as far as the PI can feed sufficiently fast the FIFO buffer, the reclouer should be able to deliver a stable I2S signal to the DAC. And if the Reclocker has good clocks, this should be an improvement over the USB output of the PI. I’m I wrong ?
Still don’t know what is the higher I2S frequency on the RPI, though…
il Carletto said My current system is minimal now.Minimserver on my Qnap Nas → ethernet connection → NMR board (with linear psu) → I2s output to AudioGd module → hdmi cable → DS.
No OS… the board is a media render, it doesn’t need it.
I’m testing some control point apps (Linn Kinsky, Audionet, Plugplayer, Myaudiostream, ArkMC… and more).
I have no issues up to 24/192 and DSD64 (DoP) and, as I wrote, it sounds superb.
Playing 24/352 and DSD128 files (both supported by NMR), the DS screen displays half resolution (24/176 and DSD64) and sounds half speed.
I have to correct what I wrote: setting a microswitch on the pcb, the NMR board supports native DSD64/128.
I also improved the psu and shortened all the wires between the board and the output module.
Now it’s absolutely fantastic.
Seems a very interesting solution Carletto. Never seen any comparable product. Something to consider. What kind of PSU do you use for it ?
I’ve found the Engineered web site but do not see the price of the NMR board…
Patrick, I’m using a DIY psu based on the ADM7150 voltage regulator. I’m planning to test another one based on Belleson.
Send an email to Alexandre at Engineered, he’s a very smart guy (and he speaks french).
il Carletto said
I have to correct what I wrote: setting a microswitch on the pcb, the NMR board supports native DSD64/128.
I also improved the psu and shortened all the wires between the board and the output module.
Now it’s absolutely fantastic.
Finally the good news!!! Is that switch automatic? No “pop”?
did you find a nice enclosure for that board and I2S output? Do you fit the psu inside or outside the enclosure?
what about your server and control point tests, what do you prefer? Did you find one that has a “random mix” feature or plugin like on LMS?
cheers,
Charles
Hi Guys,
Is there a new Moode version 3.0 thats using a advanced ( custom ) kernel thats is capable to play DSD 128, I already tested and really works, but I’m getting some background noise, I believe moode guys will release a new version this week to fix some minor bus, let’s see.
Enjoy,
Alexandre.
Hi Alexandre,
Is your question about a Kernel version able to play DSD128 in I2S ?
I’m using Moode 2.7 2016-08-28 version on a RPI3 in USB and I have no problem to play DSD128. No background noise. Files are streamed from the LAN.
@Carletto: I’ve contacted Alexandre@Engineered 2 days ago, still no answer…
I think I’m going to venture into this whole Raspberry Pi thing, but I’ll need some help. Since this thread started some new capabilities have come out for the RPI and I’m wondering which is the best way to go.
I was going to go the way of using a RPI3 and getting the additional hardware for I2S, but do I really need to do that now that Moode Audio Player seems to be able to do DSD128 via USB? Is I2S still a better way to go? And if I use Moode Audio Player, do I even need a RPI3? I noted in this post
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/271811-moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-537.html#post4904273
that DSD128 will apparently work on a piZERO. Will using a single core Pi device, that draws lower power, be better for the sake of audio quality?
And @il-carletto, could you provide a rundown of all of the equipment you have put together for your player, or if you did that in a previous post, a link to that? Thanks.
patrick said Hi Alexandre,Is your question about a Kernel version able to play DSD128 in I2S ?
I’m using Moode 2.7 2016-08-28 version on a RPI3 in USB and I have no problem to play DSD128. No background noise. Files are streamed from the LAN.
@Carletto: I’ve contacted Alexandre@Engineered 2 days ago, still no answer…
Hi Patrick,
Yes, I’m using with I2s.
amolan : I understood from the upper Ted’s answer that the Kernel could not be the only limiting factor to get it work, the same in term of sound quality. See its comments on the clock(s).
@tony22 : If you are looking for the best option, the Engineered’s Media Renderer presented by Carletto has to be considered. No OS and a dedicated small device that will do act as a simple UPNP/DLNA renderer in I2S. The website seems not completed while we have a shopping cart but no product to put in it So no price too.
Thanks Patrick. I did take a look at the site. I am curious about the pricing.
May be the LANRover has to be considered too However, I’ve not seen any distributor of it around me.
I’m wondering why PSAudio do not produce a LANRover with an I2S output to connect on our PSAudio DAC. May be less versatile ? A technical or SQ concern ?
Linvincible saidFinally the good news!!! Is that switch automatic? No “pop”?
did you find a nice enclosure for that board and I2S output? Do you fit the psu inside or outside the enclosure?
what about your server and control point tests, what do you prefer? Did you find one that has a “random mix” feature or plugin like on LMS?
cheers,
Charles
Charles, yes the NMR switches pcm/dsd automatically and I no longer need to set DoP mode.
Unfortunately, the downside is a pop during the transition between pcm/dsd.
I’m still looking for a nice enclosure, but I’m not concerned about it yet
I’m using Minimserver on my Qnap TS-212 Nas and Bubbleupnp control point. They work together perfectly.
The Pi3 works very well with DS, and its value for price is great, but the NMR is far better in terms of SQ.
I’m very, very happy
Patrick: Alexandre must be a very busy (or lazy) guy, also I have waited some days for his replay
il-carletto, what was the pricing on the NMR device?