The comments from Playback Designs don’t reference anything to do with DSD and walk dangerously close to the line of making a statement which is flat out invalid in terms of physics and reality (regarding frequency domain vs time domain). I can take a generous view of it though and interpret them as saying their filters are not static and therefore the measured response to a non-musical impulse may not tell you anything useful about the way the DAC filters the waveforms of sounds we actually listen to.
Re the MkII, I’m just about at the point where I think it would be better if it didn’t have a volume control feature and PSA advertised it as a device which is intended to be used in conjunction with an analog pre-amp (separate or integrated). Understanding noise floors and dynamic range and ultrasonic noise shaping and gain matching is hard for a lot of customers. It’s a pity the analog attenuator system didn’t work out in practice – that would have sidestepped some of this angst.
dvorak, thanks for your comments! As usual, I find them well-reasoned and helpful.
Based on the highly positive reputation of Playback Designs DACs among consumers with enough money to afford them, I’m assuming the company knows how to design a good-sounding DAC. Ted Smith has also made comments about the fact that the designers at PD have faced some of the same noise-management and measurement challenges Ted has. Your “generous view” of the situation seems reasonable, especially in recognition of the complexity of the filter designs involved.
I agree with your comment that the volume control feature on the Mk2 has added to confusion and complexity. Because I prefer to use a preamp with the Mk2, I don’t have the need for a volume control on the DAC. However, I do know that some users prefer to avoid using a preamp and would be disappointed if the volume control feature were eliminated from the Mk2.
mdsimon2, thanks for the link to the review of the Meitner MA3. It sounds like a really good DAC, although the reviewer noted a few ways in which it fell a little short of his more expensive reference DACs.
I loved the comments on measurement and listening from Ed Meitner. His discussion of how measuring musical signals is a lot harder (and different) than measuring steady-state sine waves was especially interesting. I was also intrigued by a few of the footnotes and the reader comments that raised the possibility that the MA3"s ability to switch among several different filters (depending on the type of signal) might allow the DAC to apply a different filter to sine waves than to continuously changing music. Does this actually raise the possibility that the filter tested by John Atkinson’s steady-state measurements may never even be used when continuous musical signals are presented to the DAC?
My main motivation behind sharing that review was to show that a FPGA based DAC that upsamples to high-rate DSD can have low noise in the audible band. What is the excuse for the DS Mk2?
That being said I agree the filter discussion is fascinating. The white noise, 19+20 IMD and impulse response measurements are consistent with a slow roll-off filter with no ringing. However, the image rejection of the single 19 kHz tone suggests a fast roll-off filter. I’d definitely like to see this area explored some more with different test signals as the variable MDAT filter is certainly atypical.
Stereophile has long championed PS Audio. John Atkinson relied on the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC Sr as his reference for many long years. John has a reputation second to none. To suggest a hatchet job by a publication that wants to say the highest in praising PS Audio is just weak, weak, weak.
Consider the possibility that perhaps the MK2 was released prematurely. Many people believe this. Once it gets closer to its ultimate configuration John Atkinson will do an update review and explain in detail the differences between the first review sample and the then current version.
You bought early, you want to feel like you did the right thing and bought at the correct time. You will accept nothing less than absolute praise to back up your opinion. Well that isn’t working out so well. Good thing it’s not about you.
I didn’t buy early, I bought when released based on my experience with PSA products, expecting a high quality product based on their reputation, not so trusting next time.
You can see in the Antero measurement the ultrasonic noise mentioned in the Stereophile review. You can also see the audible noise. And to be clear, all this noise is way down in the weeds of audibility.
But, as we have said, Ted’s continuing to always work on improving the DAC and we will release updates as he succeeds.
The beta version of Massive has considerably lower ultrasonic noise and noticeably lower in band noise. Here’s the measurements:
I hope Ted gets all the bugs out of Massive. I don’t know about anyone else, but the intermodulation noise is getting worse on my system. The noise is now swirling and pulsing under the music all of the time and it is not at a low volume. Please help!!!
I have been emailing back and forth with Aaron and he said they are working on it as a priority. I was a beta tester on the MKII so my unit is an early production model. It is also odd that I never experienced any of the earlier popping or drop out issues. My unit has performed flawlessly until this.
I too was a Beta tester and have been listening closely to the changes as they have evolved. I can’t understand how you are experiencing the strange phenomenon that you are. I do use the BHK preamp in my normal listening. I did by pass it recently and did not have any strange sounds or issues. The sound was very clean open and noiee free. Very interesting to say the least.
But he’s right that you won’t accept the possibility that the Benchmark could be better, which was Atkisson’s clear conclusion (or at minimum strong suggestion) based on the unit he tested.
I don’t use a preamp as the output of the MKII feeds a JL CR-1 active crossover then to my power amps and JL subs, so there is no direct connection to the power amps as the case in some others having the noise issue.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. And so many on these forums were suggesting a hatchet job just reflexively because they couldn’t accept a poor review, which is what it was. I do hope it gets reconsidered via a follow-up review if/when the bugs eventually get fixed.
FWIW, I have owned Benchmark DACs in the past and liked them. Subsequently, I have owned DSJR, DSSR, and DSMK2, and like them better. The Benchmark was very quiet and it’s analog volume output allows use without a preamp. A plus and great value. The PSA DAC/BHK Pre excels in what I believe is most musically accurate, with a background so “black” that it sometimes startles me. Does this mean my setup measures better than others? I don’t care.
If there comes a time that tests can measure music, I’m all in. It certainly would save time and so much
wrangling. I play piano (poorly), and go to the symphony. My best references.
When my unit gets noisy I do a system reset. The input grounding tab issue causes static to build up. I finally received upgraded nickel transformers. Now time to do the mod and fix input ground issue. Mine started sounding like you mentioned last night with massive Beta. The system reset killedthe noise.
