I am the owner of Perfectwave MkII DAC with Bridge II. I use Jriver MC26 as media server.
Suddenly I discovered that if I set Jriver DLNA server audio mode to “original” than I can able to play DSF/DFF 64x files. As I know this mode doesn’t use DSD->PCM conversion, and it’s a little strange for me how I can play DSD files on my MKII DAC, because it is PCM DAC. While playing DSF files I can see 88kHz sample rate on DAC’s screen.
So, my question is what is really occurs? Does MKII support DSD? Or does it convert DSD to PCM on the fly? Or maybe MKII tell Jriver to convert DSD to PCM on the fly despite of “original” mode?
The PWD Mk II does not support DSD, nor does it or Bridge II convert DSD files to PCM. JRMC must be doing it. JRMC’s set-up options can be confusing. I only go up to JRMC 25 (and am not currently using that) but to get DSD out there is a checkbox for bitstreaming (I think) that has to be checked. Otherwise I believe it will convert to PCM.
What I cvan tell you is the what the PWD reports is accurate. And yes, the Bridge can handle DSD but it needs to be in the DoP format. So, the problem lies within JRiver. I believe we have a guide on our website how to set up JRiver in our How to section: https://www.psaudio.com/support/how-to/ so you might give that a gander. If not, call us at 800-PSAUDIO and one of our customer service folks can probably walk you through it.
It’s very interesting. Here is JRMC wiki explanation:
The option under the DLNA server configuration Advanced section “Bitstream DSD” (requires DoPE compatible renderer) will ALWAYS send dsf, dff and sacd files as DoPE regardless of the audio format settings above. If you have a native DSD compatible renderer, you should not use this option. Instead use either “Original format” or “Specified format only when necessary” as de-select the file types including DSD that you don’t want converted.
It is exatcly what I do, I use Original format settings. According to Jriver documentation there is no DSD->PCM conversion in this case.
And one more thing. Besides PWD I have Naim Mu So Qb2 which support DSD up to 128. My JRMC server works for both PWD and Mu So. It seems that JRMC really stream DSD with my settings, because I’ve made the test: Mu so can plays DSF128 files and can’t correctly play DSF512 files (exactly the same way as I play these files on Mu so from USB flash). If I change JRMC settings from “Original mode” to “Convert files if necessary” than I can play DSF512 file on Mu so without problem (because of conversion to PCM).
And returning to PWD. In JRMC “original mode” it can play only DSF64, not higher. If I set “Convert files if necessary” that it plays all possible files up to DSD512.
That is why it seems that PWD with Bridge II really accept DSD64 files without conversion. As I know PWD based on Wolfson WM8741 chip. Specs says that it support DSD.
So, maybe it is possible that PWD with Bridge II can handle DSD64?
Thank you for reply. I think that my Jriver settings is correct, please, take a look to my previous post.
Can you confrim that PWD can handle DSD64 or it is impossible in principe?
The chip may support DSD but the DAC does not. I don’t think the Bridge II would know what to do with native DSD (it can’t handle native DSD in the Direct Stream either–USB and I2S do). It can pass DoP because it looks like PCM but the PWD Mk II wouldn’t be able to play it. When playing in JRMC there is a spot you can click (forget where exactly and I’m not at my home PC) that will tell you what processing JRMC is applying.
In this case it will be very interesting what spot are you speak. Because all audio settings for UPnP server in JRMC placed at Options->Media Network->Add or configure DLNA servers. And if I choose in Audio tab “original mode” than all other settings became inactive including “DSP studio”.
I will be very thankful if you find the spot you mentioned when you be able.
One more thing. Naim application also show “DSD” if I use JRMC “original mode”. While using JRMC “Specified output format” with conversion DSD->PCM Naim app show “WAV” format.
On my Mac in JRMC 25 it is a small blue gear icon just to the right of the progress bar that shows how far along in the song you are when playing. See the screensho* (it’s underneath the cursor).
This window show Jriver audio path only in case of local zones (Player zone for example). In case of DLNA server you can see “Not using Jriver audio engine” as on screen below.
As I said in previous post all the settings for DLNA server is here: Options->Media Network->Add or configure DLNA servers. And no other JRMC settings take effect for DLNA server:
If you are only using JRMC as a DLNA server then presumably you are using something else as a player. You only mentioned the PWD II and JRMC so I assumed you were also using it as the player (I believe Paul made the same assumption). Maybe your player is doing the conversion. All I can say is the PWD II is receiving 88kHz PCM, not DSD, from somewhere up the chain.
When you say “player” you mean the DLNA Control point?
I use standard Jremote iPhone/iPad application to control PWD and Naim Mu So. Jremote doesn’t have any settings to change output format of JRMC server. It just for control - I can choose the renderer (PWD or Mu So) and stream JRMC out to renderer. All the settings I can manage only in JRMC itself.
So, it still very strange why I can play DSD files on PWD in original mode…
As you say, JRemote is just a control point. When you use it as described with the PWD, you are using JRMC as the player, not just as DLNA server. Your screenshots above are for playing through your Mu-So, not the PWD II. What do those screens show when you are trying to play a DSD file to the PWD? The PWD and Mu-So are different JRMC “players” and their configurations do not have to be the same.
Those screens exactly the same while streaming to PWD. Please, take a look at the pictures:
I’ve made the same test with another UPnP Server software - Asset. Results similar to Jriver.
If I choose settings for output DSF/DFF files “as is” that I can play them on PWD with indication of 88kHz on PWD screen. Screenshot is here.
Description from Asset manual:
“DSD handling: ‘as is’ sends untouched audio/x-dff or audio/x-dsf. ‘as Wav’ decodes the DSD to PCM. ‘as DoP’ embeds the DSD bitstream into a WAVE file, requires a DoP compatible DAC, only DSD64 files are supported”
So, the question is still actual. It really seems that PWD with Bridge II play native DSD.