going from ps audio ppp to a p5 regenertor


#1

Hi, this is my first post. Currently I own a pwt and pwd mk2. I also have a ppp regenator. Would like to upgrade to a p5 but from my understanding the p5 handles 1200 watts and the ppp handles 1500, so is this an upgrade? thanks


#2

Welcome!

I have both a PPP and a P5. The p5 definitely sounds better. It is much more efficient, lower output impedance, greater headroom - an entirely different beastie.

Keep in mind PS Audio has a nice 30 day in-home trial period. You can try a P5 and compare.


#3

I started with a PWT and a PWD and a PPP. Then I moved to a P5 and a PWT and a DS, then moved to a P10, and then a DMP and DS.

The P5 is definitely an upgrade you’ll hear right away. I still have my PPP in a small headphone based second system, it’s a great product. But the P5 is a decidedly better sounding product as Elk notes.


#4

thanks for the replies, I noticed someone had one for sale on this forum, although I am not sure if it has sold yet.


#5

If it is advertised here and not marked sold, it probably is available. Forum members are good about posting their advertised item has sold, and if I know something has sold I edit the topic title to indicate [Sold]. Send the selling member a private message and ask.


#6

Don’t know your financial situation obviously, but there are some very good deals out there on P10s. You will notice a difference!


#7

Thanks everyone, I am really enjoying this site, so much info for me to learn about. That p10 looks like a beast. Now you got me interested but not sure if that could fit in my rack


#8

Consider getting a new rack. The P10 is worth it. 4_gif


#9

Or place it on an amp stand.


#10

I posted this on Audiogon a few days ago and another "Goner recommended I post it here for reaction.

Ever since I became aware of the idea of power regeneration, I found it a very appealing concept. Years ago I started with a PS Audio P500. It yielded good sound but was only 50% efficient, thus using a lot of AC and serving as a space heater!

Along came the Premier Power Plant that increased the efficiency to 85% thus running cooler. I tried running my entire rig off of the PPP only to have the regenerator fail under the strain. PS stood solidly behind their product and sent me a new model. This served me well for the last 7 years…but…I did not hook my power amp up to it so as to reduce the strain. The amp was plugged into a PS Audio Duet conditioner.

Over the last several months I noticed the output power distortion rose from what used to be .3-.4% to .9-1.0%. Upon calling PS and talking to tech. support, they indicated that they were offering a significant discount on the newer P5 Power Plant for a trade-in of the PPP. No shipping costs to me either way!

Like many of us in this hobby, upgrading was hard to resist. Apparently the made in China quality control was not what PS had for with the PPP and they were making the offer to reduce the PPP’s in the field. The made in Boulder, CO P5 was touted as having much tighter QC and a 16 bit regenerator circuit versus the PPP’s 8 bit.

Once the P5 arrived, I hooked up everything but the amp as it had been with the 2nd PPP. Upon calling PS to ask tech. support for some feature clarifications and discussing my system, I was strongly encouraged to hook my amp up. I was assured that the more robust P5 would have no problems with it. Right they were. With the entire system of SACD player with outboard power supply attached as well as my line stage and phono preamp I am only using about 1/3 of its available power output! Using the multi wave setting which allows for increased charging time of the P5’s output waveform “feeding connected equipment with power that lowers the connected equipment’s power supply ripple, much the same way as increasing the power supply capacitance of connected equipment.”

The accompanying remote allows the user to switch from normal sine wave output to multi wave on the fly. The increase in bass attack (Kickdrum!) and the tautness of deep bass is irresistible using multiwave. On fine recordings the soundspace takes on an a gripping 3D aspect, an organic nature I’ve not heard from my system previously.

Upon just re-reading the above this has turned into a review/endorsement. Sorry about that! I would appreciate hearing of other A’goners’ experiences with regenerators, especially the PS models. It is remarkable to hear how Paul McGowan and company have refined the original regenerator idea over the years.

I know from previous threads that many of you do not like your amps on conditioners, as you’ve experienced dynamic constriction. I’m not disputing that at all here. Indeed PS Audio makes the P10 (big beast) for power needier systems. And I don’t doubt that there is equipment out there that may not respond well to the P5 or P10 regenerator. I’m loving what the P5 is doing for mine!

And yes in case anyone is wondering, it does require a week or so to open up and dance.


#11

Welcome, hifiman5!

And thank you for the story/review.


#12

I had a PPP, then a P5 and now have a P10. I had no trouble running my amp on either of them but of course the P10 is the best of the lot.

I have a love/hate with MultiWave. I love the idea of it. . .but in fact Sine works better for me and my system. I would add that my amp and preamp have big power supplies and the amp has separate voltage regulation on the input tubes and the output tubes as well as tube rectification. . . this may have something to do with it. I sometimes use “1” in the MultiWave but usually switch back to Sine after a bit; if there were a .5 setting that might be perfect.

I find it fascinating how these regenerators influence the entire system.I have two bias modes for my amp’s output tubes, and two ohm settings for the speakers (4 and 8, and my speakers are 6, so each “works” and both are different), and there’s the Sine and MultiWave settings, as well as Low Distortion and High Regulation. . . .This is like having six or more different amplifiers and systems really in some subtle and not so subtle ways. I usually have the High Regulation mode and Sine settings in use.


#13

Thanks for these kind words and I look forward to other Audiogonners (that sounds fatal) chiming in with their experiences.

One thing we battle is that many manufacturers of amplifiers cling to the idea that plugging straight into the wall socket is always best - and to avoid power conditioners. They do this because they are right. For the most part and with few exceptions (Shunyata being one of them) power conditioners are series devices that restrict power. That happens not to be true with the handful of parallel conditioners (like Shunyata) or a Power Plant. The downside with parallel conditioners is they are extremely limited in how much impact they can exert onto the AC power. Most of what they do is a mystery since our attempts (and others) to measure any differences have been met with head scratching (though they do seem to improve the sound quality).

Power Plants break all the rules. Instead of increasing series resistance like a typical power conditioner, or not making it worse—like a parallel conditioner—Power Plants measurably lower series resistance by orders of magnitudes. Easily measurable and dramatically better than without being in the circuit.

Still, manufacturers don’t want to just say “plug it straight into the wall unless you have blah, blah, blah”. It’s just easier/safer for them to simply tell people to plug straight in. After all, their amp will be to blame if it doesn’t sound good when being auditioned. So they hedge their bets with the safest possible course of action.

But over the years thousands have learned the truth about true regenerators like the Power Plants.

Thanks for bringing this to the forums.


#14
lonson said I have a love/hate with MultiWave. I love the idea of it. . .but in fact Sine works better for me and my system.
My experience as well with tube amps. So far, I find they prefer a sine wave diet. Multiwave works better with solid state.

#15

What about amps like the BHK 250? I imagine that the solid-state output stage has the greater impact in terms of whether multi-wave would work well or not, but would appreciate confirmation if anyone has tried it both ways.


#16

On my system with a pair of BHK Monoblocks, each powered by a single P10, I use MultiWave exclusively. Much better sound IMHO.


#17

I must say that when I had my PPP I never noticed a discernible difference between sine wave and multiwave. With my power amp plugged into the P5, the improvements yielded by multi wave are more apparent. It has not only tightened up the bass from the main speakers but also the deep bass from my two subwoofers as they are connected to the power amp via the speaker cable outputs. In other words the amp is now feeding a tighter signal to the subs. Deep bass has incredible impact. Visceral!


#18

One omission on my post above is that I focused solely on the multiwave’s impact on bass reproduction. ALL aspect of the music has increased (more realistic) dynamic ebb and flow. Tapping my foot more. The music is so involving that I keep putting down my laptop or reading material to focus on the music. Dynamics for themselves mean nothing to me. Dynamics that startle me at times because of the realism of the sound of the instruments is where I want to be! Smiling a lot during listening sessions.


#19

From my personal experience (PPP vs P5 / P10): The latest regens handle voltage fluctuations far, far better - they are capable of cutting / boosting much more and still be stable. PPP, I’ve always felt that the supply from the wall had to be pretty stable to begin with, in order for the PPP to work properly.

[It’s possible that the 110V model is different; my country is 230V].

As I’ve said elsewhere: My P10 takes the BHK 300 mono’s, BHK Pre; DS and DMP - and seldom if ever gets to 40% load. happy-048_gif


#20

To add to thus, I find the newer units also handle changes in THD far better. The PPP will some time switch between regenerating and letting the wall current through when THD is higher (perhaps greater than 4%) and fluctuating. When stable with high THD the PPP is fine.

Fortunately, at least for me, this is an uncommon occurrence. My PPP fusses; my P5, cares not a whit.