I would consider that clarifying for PS Audio customers, which I am a part of. I have the P15, DSD DAC, Stellar Preamp, and in the past BHK Pre and BHK250. So I’m not out here to “get” PS Audio, simply wanted to know more about these important issues, which I think is very much deserving of an answer.
I only care about the HC impedance issue, since Paul have repeatedly mentioned the benefits of low impedance, even in this video. Knowing the HC outlets not only not delivering the promised low impedance but even worse than wall outlet is heart breaking, especially for a PS Audio fan like myself and I’m sure many others.
I have zero Idea? And then on top of that is it auditable? What does it mean to the sound? Most of the time on all of these measurements presented they are meaningless to the human ear. So why would I care so much about them?
I want to know what it means to the sound quality. Could not care what the most sensitive instrument in the world thinks of it on a few Noise ratio graphs. What does it do the sound? Help? hurt? nothing?
Paul and Bob explained in clear English what it means and why it works the way it does. Showed how to look on the graphs which is live data. I have owned (still own for non main system) the chinese ones ASR loves and ranks so high. They are good values. Way more than most people used to be able to buy, but really offer nothing special. All clones of each other, and in most cases are direct order from China. Not even a local store or even a big box chain makes anything. Not to sound too political, but in this day and age its great to have something I buy that is its USA designed and built. Does not happen often and I am happy to spend a bit more to support local outfit. @Paul how many employees to you have now?
That is why I evaluate data presented and make my own assessments. Too bad I don’t have the equipment to measure myself so I appreciate Amir for the data set. I don’t really care too much his assessments, but in this case the point is made by Paul himself that low output impedance is good and is the benefit that Power Plants provide. But alas, now we have a data point that show the opposite, so I’m looking at PS Audio to reassure us customers that’s Amir must have done something wrong? And show evidence that Power Plants HC outlets did indeed provide low impedance with actual music instead of test signals. Test like you fly as they said.
I’ve been on Amir’s website and have argued against relying on pure measurements there in the past (think I’m not kicked out of there, yet).
Here is why I believe that he isn’t just out to get manufacturers whose products he does not house in his store (I did not know he owned a store, prior):
(1) He has given good ratings to cheaper Denon receivers (AVR X3700h, etc) and simultaneously trashed more expensive Marantz (& Denon) receivers and A/V processors. From what I know, Denon and Marantz have the same owner.
(2) There have been instances in the past where he has made mistakes in measurement. These were pointed out / corrected by the engineers of the product. And Amir posted amended results.
In this particular case, I’d bet that the engineer who designed the Powerplant products spent more than a thousand times the time & effort pondering on his design / measurements than Amir did on his P12 review. Moreoever, most likely, PS Audio has the requisite expertise & (expensive) tools to measure / find out the discrepancy and report back to Amir where he is wrong (in case he is).
So I decided to do my own test with my P20. This ASR guy has me up a tree.
I got my test reference-level equipment, the Johnson 384 and the Framus Premier 50 and had them at the ready.
First, I moved my monoblocks out of the P20 and into the wall; dedicated 20 A.
Sounded flatter, less air, maybe even a vacuum. Then after listening for a week, I plugged them back into the P20. Brilliant. Mellifluous. Airy. Just what I paid for.
Then a guy walking his shih tzu past my open windows yelled in to me: “hey, wuhdja do to your system? It sounds so airy”.
I have a P20 runs my whole system. I was doing power cord testing off a 15 amp cords feeding 15 Amp ICs. The power draw of big mono amps at power up if not plugged in high current lets you know the thermistors due their job job. Otherwise the P20 will shut down and fault at start up if system draw exceeds current limits without the high current outlet buffering the sudden surge of current draw.
That is the best test. Hearing a diff when you make a change is one thing, but once you are used to that change and go back, often time is the most telling test.
umm…he did. Its bob in the video. I believe the point is not challenging the measurements but challenging using those only to determine its a useless waste of money. If I took a scoop of ice cream from two different makers, and said this one is 28.0000 degrees and this one is 29.87665 degrees. then posted that I determined the one that is colder is better tasting what would you tell me? That is what at least I am saying here. Wrong test so why do I care about what are most likely auditable results from the wrong test?
If Amir was being professional and had only the best intentions, his first move should have been to contact PSA and talk things over and seek their advice on appropriate measurement. Remember too that Amir was testing a borrowed unit from a forum member and he had not established that it was working within design specs. So, to have published his results as gospel truth without any verification tells me that Amir was definitely NOT being a nice guy!
@Paul can’t use the gear under test as the test gear!
The response which opened this thread has an appearance of looking weak. He needs to take some of the suggestions people have provided above or whatever deemed necessary.
Paul did a much more effective job regarding the process of measurement approach for the DirectStream DAC criticism.
I own four pieces of PS Audio gear, including a Regenerator -which I like.
I’ll lose some respect for Paul and the company if they are not more effective in rebuttal. Again, not head-to-head, but a more robust proof of performance such as outlined in an earlier post above.
The company is capable of creating proof of performance measurements, and they can certainly do them in a formal robust manner than what was presented here.
There have been instances in which I’ve disagreed with Amir’s findings: According to Amir’s testing, using a ‘basic’ DAC like the Topping D90 or the RME ADI-2 FS (ver 2), one would get at least as good quality sound as using something like the Holo May. I am highly skeptical but have not done a ‘perfect’ DBT. I could clearly make out differences between, even, the Qutest and the RME DACs.
But that does not mean that this should remain unanswered. I’m about to plonk $8-10k on a power conditioner. This review makes me hit the pause button, temporarily.
I will disagree. We are all adults. The internet has turned everyone into teenagers. I love Paul’s response. This is what it was designed for and what it does and why it makes such a difference for sound in your systems. I get it we all want defend our love for this stuff, and Amir makes it easy to want to tear him down, but two neg do not make a pos. The people that only care about SIAD are going to live and die by Amir and his tests…good for them, its a free country.
And paying shipping back to PSAudio for a free test is expected. Have you paid to ship anything that heavy lately…omg. They would go broke. You want a free test, pay. Amazon is great with that, but they are much bigger and usually have tiny little things to send back. Small companies cannot afford to pay for people having fun with their equipment.
