Lemon p20. Call Paul next?

I’ve had incredible problems with my power plant p20 that I bought. In short, it’s gone back for warranty service three times over the last month; each time they did something and I get it and it’s DOA on arrival.

Basically, it turns on, but nothing on the display. No power on the outlets in the back.

Each time they’ve found something loose First it was the LCD board, they replaced it; second it was a loose oscillation cable; they tightened it; third time it was the transformer bolt that got twisted in shipping. I have no confidence that they have really fixed the problem. Am expecting to receive it, turn it on and get as big old zilch, nada, zero.

Seriously?! For a $10k piece of equipment this thing is an absolute lemon. It can’t handle shipping from Colorado to New Mexico?

Any suggestions? Am thinking of calling Paul. Last guy I dealt with was Mark Simpson, supposedly a big shot—he just let the tech do his thing and send it back. I had asked him to call me and show me why he thinks it’s fixed, but of course was too much to ask.

Shankha

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This would be very frustrating.

Do give Paul a call or send him an email.

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Yeah especially since it takes a forklift to get it in and out of the box.

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It is a beastie, certainly.

Curious as to whether this was a new, in the box purchase from PSA or an authorized dealer?

Or, was it purchased second hand?

If the former, I would simply demand a brand new unit since it does appear to be an example of the proverbial lemon. If the latter, I could see why PSA might be trying to resolve the matter with repairs.

Additional question (again, just curious) - are you “out of pocket” w/r/t any of the repair costs thus far?

Frustrating for sure, in any event…

Good luck.

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Yikes. This certainly sounds like a nightmare and certainly not indicative of our products nor our service.

Can you reach out to me and I’ll start digging in to find out what happened?

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It wasn’t new. It’s one year old, was perfectly fine for previous owner, no mods. I bought it with PayPal protection, so will return it to the guy for a refund if PSA doesn’t send me a new one. No skin off my back. The previous owner will just keep sending back to PSA for warranty. They’ll end up paying more for all the shipping and the work continuously. I just don’t want to have to deal with it anymore.

To be honest, it’s giving me a sour taste about PSA. I have their PST, their top of line DAC and was thinking of getting their phono preamp to replace my EAR 834P. Am having second thoughts.

Regarding cost. The first shipping to PSA I split with the seller. After that PSA paid for all the shipping back and forth. So far I’m out USD112.

I’m sick of having to unpack It from the box, packing it etc. I have a bad shoulder, so them saying “oh yeah FedEx will come and pick it up” doesn’t help me.

And worst of all, my fabulous system is sitting idle for a month and half now. It’s a disgrace all the way around.

I just did some digging and it appears the P20 receives quite the jarring ride with FedEx. Each time we receive it back, there is obvious shipping damage. The top was cracked recently, and then it was clearly dropped pretty bad the last time as the transformer bolt was loose. The loose bolt is pretty indicative of a high drop or the package being mishandled. Though a short trip to NW, it certainly isn’t a smooth one.

I’m not trying to place blame on anyone, but it’s clear each time it leaves our shop it’s in good working condition. From what I can tell, there is nothing inherently lemon about this specific P20. Maybe shipping can arrange for it to be shipped priority so it is handled by different folks.

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If I could make a general suggestion, I had my BHK 300s and P20 rerouted to FedEx Office while in transit to my house. It takes a little extra work to request the service and to pick upvthe boxes. BUT, you can inspect the boxes and/or contents on the spot before accepting them. Additionally, drivers are less likely to mishandle boxes going to a FedEx store.

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@jamesh you’ll pardon me, but blaming Fedex isn’t particularly useful. Three times it has now been sent back because it couldn’t handle shipping? You have to be kidding me.

If it’s so susceptible to shipping, it’s the classic definition of a lemon. If it can’t handle shipping then you should have retail shops where people can buy your products.

And going and picking up a 120lb beast at the Fedex store because the thing is so delicate is not reasonable.

You’re absolutely right. I’m only trying to report what I found in the tech notes. It is absolutely still our fault. I was mentioning that each time it came here, the symptoms are usually indicative of a rough ride.

Ultimately, I don’t want you to have a sour taste from this lemon experience (sorry for the poor attempt at humor).

You’re right, if you were able to pick it up at a store or one of us were to drive it down to you, this wouldn’t be an issue at all. I hope this experience has dissuaded you from enjoying your PS gear. It’s really sucky that this has happened so many times. I also hope that you allow us to make it right for you.

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What a headache.

The FedEx packages I have received from PS Audio have all been in excellent condition, including a P20. The products are also robustly packaged.

I suspect the weight of the unit is resulting in handler/driver abuse in this particular circumstance. While my driver handled the weight easily and was careful, the approach of other FedEx employees likely varies.

I like the suggestion of sending the box to a FedEx store as it removes some of the FedEx employee handling and offers easy inspection as @nortonkp noted. But I appreciate this may not be appealing. I can readily handle the weight of the box. For others it can be a legitimate problem to lug it around, and it is an additional bother to drive to the store.

The P20 is a wonderful piece of kit. I hope you continue working with PSA to get this resolved even though it has been a pain so far.

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Ok, believe it or not, I opened the box, plugged it in and for the first time it booted up! I had to take a picture and stare at it to make sure it was real. :joy:

To be honest, I was ready to send this thing back. But Paul’s and Mark Simpson’s assurances that they would replace it if it misbehaved again is the only reason I decided to give it another try.

Sincerely appreciate their help. I don’t think this thing is fixed, it’ll take quite a bit of time to gain confidence in it, but this is a good start.

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Strap it to a pallet and ship FedEx Freight?

Sounds like it would be worth any extra expense

Best,
-JP

Good news. :grinning:

Excellent news.

Please keep us informed. It is an amazing unit.

It has been a difficult trip for you. You deserve to be able to enjoy it.

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My P20 received from FedEx had a forklift tine straight through the Box. But as Maxwell Smart says “Missed it by that much! “ But I took photos opened powered it on. Only shut down issues are from power surges or exceeding limits of its rated output playing LF heavy movies. It doesn’t like to exceed 2200 watts of current draw. But it always resets by pulling power cord then plug in and power cycle.

Great piece when not damaged.