Well that’s true for sure. But it is not the effort, it is the interruption of the flow of an album I’ve known all my life. Imagine watching your favorite movie where every 10 minutes you have to get up and put in a new DVD.
"Yeah - but the picture is REALLY GOOD!"
sorta like my love life
For those needing more information about the provenance of this new pure DSD256 transfer of KOB from HDTT, Bob Witrak has now posted at his website: “Transferred from a 15ips 2-track tape”. Since there was no retail release of all five tracks on 15ips tape, as far as I know, this sounds like he had access to a safety master or a production master for manufacturing.
It is very enjoyable listen.
This would be quite a difference in my understanding, as a safety copy of the original master would be a copy of a copy. (2 track master) of the original 3 track master and still unmastered…while a production master would inherit all EQ’ing and vinyl production limiting of the time, otherwise in the same way a 3rd generation tape.
Remember: the Grundman releases are vinyl from the first generation 3 track…and they sound so compared to the HDTT, All other audiophile vinyl releases would also be at least a generation up.
@jazznut, yes, the Grundman mastered vinyl is magical. I once had the Classic-45 in my vinyl collection (now gone due to downsizing, regrettably), and those cuts were “go to” demonstration tracks for anyone visiting our listening room. Today, I’m digital only – simply the reality of life’s transitions. Thus my interest in finding the best possible digital release without comparison to vinyl. For me, this DSD256 release from HDTT is the best sounding digital file I have in my digital music library.
I don’t try to compare digital to vinyl because I no longer have my vinyl system with which to make a current assessment. And, when I did, it was always like comparing apples to kumquats. Are you currently able to listen to DSD256 playback via a DAC that matches in quality your vinyl playback system? Did you ever get the DSD256 file versus only listening to the 24-96 free download sample. Provenance and tape generations aside, listening to the DSD256 file via a DAC that matches in quality to your vinyl playback system would be an interesting exercise.
You commented earlier in this thread that you “hate to talk theoretically if it’s possible to do the comparison”. Have you now done a true comparison by listening to the actual DSD256 file in discussion? (The 24-96 is a poor thing from which to make any judgement other than as to the music content.) Just curious about your assessment of the actual sound quality versus assumptions about the impact of tape generations once we get to the final product to which we’re actually able to listen. 
You’re completely right, I didn’t compare the DSD256, just the 24/96…but I didn’t tell I did 
So to not only have to speculate about the generations influence on the HDTT sound, I at least got the sample.
From my experience with sampling rate differences from PCM files I could guess how the DSD256 could differ and where not, but that would be just theory
From what I heard from the sample I can imagine it’s maybe the best digital KOB at least in the most important aspect, although not all of them (there’s also an SACD from the 3 track tape and even some digital versions of the 2 track sound better in top end information imo).
I doubt a bit that the HDTT would be my best sounding digital file, as I’d not even call the Grundman reissue my best sounding LP…there are better recordings imo than KOB. But I appreciate your feedback and respect your opinion!
Thank you for your courteous reply, jazznut.
There are, indeed, better sounding recordings than KOB. But I suspect you will agree that musically it is a great album and worth the search for a way to hear it in the best sonics our respective playback systems allow.
I also see that I engaged too much here for not having the exact sample rate file available.
The reason why I did, is in this case - I admit - the theory of someone selling tape drops of either unmastered tapes or cutting masters of a relatively low generation (compared to what we’re normally used to) and I could only support this doubt by listening to two really bad releases (the Mulligan and a classical one) and this KOB sample, which I consider good, but not great in comparison to the best.
Sorry if I overdid it!
Understandable reaction to a company with which one is not familiar releasing tapes for which there is very limited provenance information. I have listened to, and written about, dozens of HDTT’s releases before KOB. They are spectacularly good in my opinion and based on my experience. But, mine is simply one person’s opinion with my own listening biases.
The interesting thing is (given many prefer them)… as they are pure DSD copies of tapes which shouldn’t be better than those used for other releases, made on equipment which shouldn’t be really better than the one of the other best mastering studios…the difference must lie in the fact that they are digitally (PCM or DXD) unprocessed releases. More information on them would really be interesting.
@jazznut, let me see if I can shed a little light on how HDTT’s releases are made, based on what I know. Bob Witrak (HDTT’s owner) uses the best sounding tapes he can access. If the source tape sounds good and does not have dropouts or other degradation, he will release it is as a “Pure DSD” transfer with no PCM post-processing (in DXD, of course). If there are some issues (and there often are with these vintage tapes), he will pull the digital transfer into DXD for processing to the extent needed. He is very clear about on his website about whether the release has been processed in DXD or whether it is a pure DSD release with no PCM processing, even if he remains vague about the source of the original tape.
In the past year, Bob has changed his transfer process. He used to transfer to DXD. He now makes the initial transfer to DSD256 using either the Merging Technology “Horus” or “Anubis” analog-to-digital converters (ADC). He’s told me that even if the tape will need some post-processing, the best sound he can capture comes via that DSD256 transfer. Paul McGowan will say the same.
In the case of the KOB release, the transfer was to DSD256 and then released as that with no further processing. What you receive for tracks 1-5 is a straight computer file copy of that same DSD256 file. For the speed corrected alternative tracks from Side A, the DSD256 file for those tracks was converted to DXD via the Merging Technology Pyramix Digital Editing Workstation. The pitch correction was made in that DXD domain, and the files were then transferred back to DSD256 for release (as alternative tracks 6, 7 and 8). So, with those speed corrected tracks, there is an interim PCM step.
For some tapes, more extensive work may be required, and in such cases the initial DSD256 transfer may go to tape restoration guru John Haley at Harmony Restorations for more extensive post-processing. (Not the case with the KOB release.)
Again, hope this helps.
@jazznut, I wrote a fairly lengthy reply sharing some of what I know about the HDTT process for transferring and releasing tapes. Unfortunately, the PS Audio Spambot quarantined the post. Perhaps the review team will choose to release it. If not, I’ll try again with a more abbreviated response.
Update: That earlier reply has now been released from quarantine and appears above this post.
Seems to me an ongoing effort to improve every aspect of the digital conversion (and DSD256) likely helps this release, possibly making it even better than the SACD from the original tapes. Even if it isn’t, I bought the HDTT release and don’t have the ability to play an SACD disc in the foreseeable future, so I’m glad HDTT made it available.
@Rushton Hopefully the spambot hold will be cleared shortly!
Thanks very much, that’s really interesting!
Did you ever compare one of those Jazz recordings, AP has done on DSD64 from the original tapes with his HDTT from the copies to PCM or DSD256 (some Blue Notes, Contemporaries etc.)?
I still search for a logic reason why especially the PCM recorded ones should come near.
I’d buy at least one of them to compare, but unfortunately I’m currently still stuck to the Bridge and 24/192 or DSD64 until Airlens shows up.
Edit: Will try the KOB and Way out west in DSD256 then. My initial scepticism doesn’t mean I’m not willing to try and be open for any results
There is only Grundman LP‘s of KOB, no SACD. The SACD available of the 3 track is from another engineer, so probably worse, but it’s still at least 2 generations earlier than the HDTT can be.
But regarding the LP’s also the Kevin Gray and Ryan K Smith ones and the Absolute Analogue label release sound better than the 24/96 sample file.
This is all great info to read about the HDTT release. I think I may get it. But with all the KOB releases out there, my head is spinning! If I missed it I apologize, but can anyone shed any light on the provenance of the recent 45 RPM Acoustic Sounds Clarity vinyl release?
It’s the best together with the old Classic Records 45 RPM one sided pressing (both are the same Grundman metal work). Some might like the one or the other for certain reasons. Worth to buy in favor of the 33 RPM.
The next best is the Absolute Analogue 33 RPM (even rarer). It sounds astonishing for the fact it’s from the 2 track tape. And the Ryan K Smith in a different way (Mono).
Yes, I’ve compared to some SACD files. You might take a look at my review on Positive Feedback for detailed comments: https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/music-reviews/miles-davis-kind-of-blue/
Thanks for explaining. I conflated the two, and I’ve edited to correct it.