That reminds me of a speaker review I just read a few days ago in the latest issue of either TAS or Stereophile (I can’t remember which). The manufacturer said he couldn’t give a simple answer to what’s different between the several models in the lineup because each one is treated as an individual design with individual parameters and solutions, all aimed at a specific price point unique to that unit. It wasn’t as simple as saying this one’s a two-way while that one’s a 3-way, or this has a 10" driver and the other is only 8". I thought that was interesting, and indicative of a well-considered design strategy for the line.
4 Likes
A reasonable person might accept that and surmise that the overall goal is to create selection of speakers that all have the signature sound of the brand, yet unique to the speakers themselves. 2 8" subs will not sound like 1 15" in the same line.
2 Likes
That B&W video was quite interesting and it looks like it should be a fantastic speaker based on design and build quality. I’m wondering why i’ve never liked the B&W Diamond series I’ve heard?
1 Like
Did you listen at a dealer or a friends set up?
A lot has to do with the listening room environment, equipment used
and if a regenerator was emplyed or not.
Best wishes
Really? That 0.01% potential change in sound is the key to overcoming the 5% of distortion common in the best speakers? Let alone the wildly varying frequency responses between all totl speakers? That’s the missing link?
I have a few green markers for you…
1 Like
That post was not directed to you …but since you like dissent…then
Ever since joined this forum you have made yourself to be the “eminent
critic” …What makes you think that you are endowed where the rest are not?
There are a lot of brilliant minds on this forum…
Don’t be a jerk
Oh and btw what gear do you have?
3 Likes
That is how many speaker ranges are planned, for good commercial reasons. That said, as they are likely to employ the same drivers, or drivers of the same design but different sizes, the sound signature is likely to be similar.
As you go down the ranges, like with B&W and Focal, there may be changes in sound signature due to cheaper drivers and less rigid cabinets (e.g. the ultra-rigid B&W 800 pressure formed cases compared to the boxes of cheaper models).
As @Chris_Brunhaver said the other day, he is trying to scale the driver technology of FR30 to other models, so hopefully there will be a PS Audio sound signature, but he said it’s difficult. Piega, whose signature is their coax mid/treble planar driver, cannot scale it down to a mid market price, so do more affordable ranges with a planar tweeter and mid-bass cones. They are more lifestyle, very slim and a wireless active series.
Regarding the B&W- it was always hearing them at a dealer set up but that was a long time ago- so perhaps the design has improved. I felt a discontinuity between the Diamond tweeter and the rest of the spectrum.
I’m far from an objectivist when it comes to audio even though I’m an engineer. However, as an engineer, I do have to look at certain things objectively. If you can explain to me how a power regenerator can overcome the exponentially larger deficiencies inherent in a loudspeaker, I’ll appreciate it very much.
Who cares what gear I have? Some of it is from well respected designers, some not so much and, some is DIY.
Discontinuity towards frequency extremes as well as flatness in tonal colors, dynamics and imaging always jumped on me when hearing them.
Strange thing is: a former B&W developer builds the Vivids, which are quite the opposite.
By your values…the best of well designed and built gear would fail you…
as they would not meet the standards you expounded thus far…
Bad gas is as having no regenerator, give a car good gas…she will purr
and sing …so it is with a regenerator…
There are many many satisfied owners of regenerator…
My simple system continually amazes and satisfies me…
I will agree that highly resolving speakers can be problematic. I lived with what I thought were shortcomings in my TAD speakers for years until the BHK300 and later versions of Directstream firmware really allowed the speaker to sing correctly. Still Digital was sometimes hard sounding until the etherRegen ethernet isolator arrived. The Niagara 7000 was really helpful as well, so I get your point about a highly resolving Diamond tweeter needing the best ancillary gear.
I have been telling a few friends about the lower cost PS Audio speakers that are planned. One just bought some Sonus Faber, and it’s too bad he couldn’t wait for one of the smaller PS speakers.
The only b&w I have heard and liked is the 802D2 on up. But my opinion. Have you heard the 802 or the 800. Pricey little buggers - but hey I liked them!!
Re Paul’s new speakers…. I heard the old versions at axpona - and they weren’t too shabby. I know the new ones are a basic tear up - but I think these will prob sound great. You know Paul isn’t going to sign off on a sterile sound with his love affair with bass. If I was looking at this price point I’d have to give them a listen. And yes - I would have a boondoggle in Boulder to do it. If I didn’t like them - then there is still the boondoggle. 
3 Likes
If there’s a boondoggle to be had, I certainly don’t want to miss out on it!!! 
When PS Audio re-opens for tours & demos, a buddy & I are going to fly down from Seattle to visit the mothership. I’m a long time MartinLogan-kinda-guy, and I was sort of assuming that my next speakers would be the Neoliths, but I definitely want to hear the FR30’s before I do anything.
Very Nice. Wish I had the space for a pair…
I have to think the sound stage (HxWxD) is absolutely huge.
1 Like
Well, there are these M-L in-wall units that sort of channel the IRS . . .
No floor space required.
Incorrect. I own relatively low distortion and flatish speakers like Maggies and I also own others that are obviously colored and “flavored”. And I enjoy all of them in different ways.
My point was the following:
Some of the lowest distortion dynamic drivers available today are the Purifi mids/midbasses. At their absolute lowest (not average), the distortion (which is right around 1K), is -60db. That’s best case scenario for one of the cleanest drivers available.
And that’s just the transducer itself. We haven’t even gotten to crossover and cabinet interactions with the transducer.
A power conditioner may make a small improvement in a system but it won’t overcome the gross inadequacies of a speaker to the point where it’s the key make-or-break thing. That 1% (fingers crossed) improvement you may get in quality of power to your amps isn’t going to make a dent relative to the mess speakers make of sound. If you don’t like how your speakers sound, buy new speakers.
On top of the limitations of ALL speaker designs available with current tech, you have to add what EVERY room does to the output - unless one lives in an anechoic chamber…
I wish I could at least visit an anechoic chamber. I understand it’s quite a bizarre experience to sit/stand/lie in one for a prolonged time because the ear/brain is just not used to not hearing SOMETHING.
The desire to pigeon-hole designers and brands is tempting, but the likes of Andrew Jones and Lawrence Dickie suggest otherwise.
Lawrence Dickie to whom you refer, was the Senior Engineer at B&W for 15 years. He was responsible for large stereo speakers like the Nautilus and the 800 speakers, but also the hugely successful Zeppelin, which I think was the first non-Apple electronic product sold in apple retail stores. He then set up Vivid, large high-end speakers.
He has now gone completely the other direction, designing the speaker in the sound/light units I use, which are the size of a jam jar and go in the ceiling. It just won the CEDIA Best Hardware award for 2021. His main design partner comes from the same design agency that he worked with on the Nautilus decades ago. They have also brought in engineers from B&W, Naim and other places. My son works there as a designer, I hope he realises how lucky he is.
The really good engineers can help to develop new products that create new markets and new types of product that people really want, like the B&W Zeppelin and ELAC Navis. The reality in home audio is that the vast majority of products are “more of the same” that most people could not tell the difference, fighting over the same customers, which is why design becomes so important. I suspect quite a lot of people will like the look of the FR30 and that may turn out to be just as much reason why people buy it.
Personally, I think they look really nice in white with black grilles, as in the promo artwork.
1 Like
The Zeppelin was a great product. I was gifted one through my work and in turn gave it to my oldest daughter, in college at the time. She used and abused that thing. I always thought it sounded and worked wonderfully for what it was.
1 Like