I have ML Prodigy’s now, and they have an already impressive soundstage. They’re also pretty big, though not as big as the Neo’s. I think I could fit the Neo’s in (about) the same position as the Prodigy’s without having to completely rearrange the room.
I’ve been tempted by a pair of Neolith’s that TMR has had available for sale for several months, but they’re not the color I would prefer. I could live with grey for the right price, but I don’t want to spend that kind of money and not get exactly what I want… That said, I’ve only ever seen 3 pair come up for sale in the used market, so I may need to be a little less picky.
…And I’m also just curious enough about the FR30’s to want to give them a listen first!!!
FWIW, you might consider the ESL 15’s. I’ve seen 'em used for $15k.
At a former RMAF show (R.I.P.) I heard both those and the Neoliths in some very impressive setups. The ESL 15’s with D’Agostino Momentum electronics and the Neoliths with the ginormous ARC amps and associated gear.
Of the two demos, I actually preferred the ESL 15’s. Could have been due to room setup, “show conditions,” what have you, but still . . .
I read a review on them some time ago by a reviewer who was comparing them directly to his Prodigy’s. While he eventually decided that he preferred the ESL 15’s, it wasn’t a slam dunk on day one, and it took him some time to appreciate the subtle differences.
I feel like the 15’s are mostly a lateral move relative to the Prodigy’s, and even it they’re slightly better, I don’t want to expend the effort (and money) for that experience. I’m also not a huge fan of the active LF section of the 15’s, as I already have a pair of ML subs, and an amplifier (Krell FPB-600c) that manhandles the passive woofers in the Prodigy’s.
In addition to the all-passive design of the Neo’s, I’m really excited about the much larger stat panel compared to my Prodigy’s (panel on the 15’s is essentially the same size as Prodigy’s). That MUCH larger radiating area WILL make a difference in dynamics, and that seems to me to be worth the money & hassle of changing speakers.
On a side note…I wrote to MartinLogan, maybe a year or so back, to ask them if they were considering a “mini Neolith”…an all-passive design with scaled down drivers that didn’t weigh 400 pounds & cost $100k. Their answer was that they might be working on something like that, but that they wouldn’t confirm that. I found that response interesting.
I also think the Naim MuSo Qb2 is really superb. The whole Uniti product line has revitalised Naim. The designer, head of Product Design at Focal Naim, also worked at the design agency that has worked with B&W for decades. There’s more video of the 800’s and other products on the design agency website:
I appreciate that @Chris_Brunhaver said that the FR30 design was engineering driven, but I don’t see why engineering shouldn’t be design-driven, or a bit of both. The Zeppelin has been replaced by something called the B&W Wedge. It looks a bit odd to me, but there’s no risk of mistaking it visually for hifi.
I pigeon-holed brands, yes (and I think that’s possible more or less), but in fact I did the opposite for designers in this example.
Your background info is very interesting, but imo it doesn’t speak against the sound signature and quality difference between B&W and Vivid speakers or against pigeon-holing brands or my personal impression of B&W speakers.
Finally I think the Vivid may be similar to the active Naultilus (which I didn’t really include in my opinion about the rest of B&W speakers).
I’ve heard the Prodigy’s “back in the day” and agree 100% that the larger the panel the better. I guess my point is that based on what I heard (again, under “show conditions”) that the Neo’s were not 4x better.
I’ve heard the 15s /13s/11s/summit/summitx/ and own odyssey’s I found the summit series to be a little shouty in the bass. In other words I think the cabinet was too small. I think the 15/13 fixes that and their integration is superb. I moved on to Maggie 20.7 and find the sound more organic and mids and overall presentation more realistic. My opinion of course. But I chose to move from the Logan because I wanted something different. I just felt the odyssey and current product have a similar house sound. It would be interesting to hear the 15 and 20.7 side by side at the same price point.
The B&W sound very good, once heard a comparison against Wilson in the same price range. It’s just that we do not like the design. The drivers protruding from the enclosure like hatch entries on a process vessel or submarine, guess still a Nautilus DNA. Just to many things going on, on those fronts and on top of those speakers.
The FR30 have a cleaner and leaner design that appeals more to me.
Looks aside I’ve always found the B&W’s too forward hence the popular pairing with previous generation McIntosh gear to balance them out. A balance issue Dickie corrected with the Vivid’s. The Buchardt’s on the other hand I found to be rolled off when I had them in for a test run.
Yes they are a bit rolled off compared to the Canton Vento I used to own. But yet provide great detail and sound stage through a wider area in the room. The fact that they are a bit rolled of makes them pair well with the Eigentakt amplifier. Just counter-wise to the B&W - McIntosh combo.
It results in absolute lack of listening fatigue. We enjoy long listening sessions and the reproduction of voices is very good. Considering the Eigentakt -Buchardt combo is a completely different price range than B&W - McIntosh combos, we are very happy with what we’ve got, especially because we like how it fits in our interior.
I enjoyed the over all sound of the S400’s but I got them in with the intention of using them in my at the time Home Office. I found much like Srajen that they needed to be turned up to sound their best which wasn’t ideal in an “office environment.” Always thought it odd that Mad’s never referenced the 6 Moon’s review on his website since it wasn’t a whole hearted endorsement. It was however the most thorough review of the speaker by an experienced reviewer and for the most part positive and an endorsement of Mad’s perseverance.
It is quite obvious from the videos that the laminated, curved structure of the B&W 800 cabinets, formed under pressure and cooked, provides incredible structural rigidity, into which the matrix is inserted. The matrix is held in under pressure from the formed cabinet.
The FR30 does the compete opposite, with a highly complex matrix providing the structural rigidity. That was according to @Chris_Brunhaver, although nothing has yet been shown.
Given how the outside of the cabinet is fundamental to the B&W design, and is curved, it is to be expected that the drivers will protrude. How else do you mount a flat driver in a curved surface?
Once the grilles are on they don’t look so bad, but I don’t find them particularly attractive.
My thoughts also when I saw first time 800D3 series that they were ugly compared to previous 800D2 version which to my eye looks the best of them all. Now that I´ve had these 800D3´s here for some time everyone thinks they look and sound absolutely stunning in white,including me. And compared to my previous Tekton DI´s these look small and slim,go figure. And sound way better than dealer demos I´ve heard,must be that now there is no Marantz or older Classe or McIntosh amplification and Spotify streamed through laptop,but PS Audio BHK ,lol
Still I miss some of that what Tektons do really well,they are a steal for the money.
Hopefully in a next couple of years there will be a pair of FR-30 in Finland => follow my footprints
The 6 moons was is referenced from the Buchardt WEB-site when I went to read it.
The comment of Srajen, that the speakers come alive at higher SPL, is correct. But it depends on the amplifier that is used as well.
I do not have that problem in my living room with the Eigentakt amplifier, also this is lesser of a problem in a living room where we do not sit close to the speakers.
Just by this discussion we may conclude that amplifier matching, application and room acoustics do make a difference. And of course our personal perceptions and preferences.
What you say is all correct and I already confirmed that the B&W sound good. Form follows function with the B&W and it are marvels of engineering.
But we simply do not like how the B&W look. Personal taste, nothing to argue about, others might like them a lot.
The Sonus Faber Olympica Nova, also constructed with curved laminates I consider to be the best looking speakers. That is the Nova, the older models had too much going on on the front and top with the leather patches.
From the front the FR30 look straight, sleek and clean for speakers with such volume. Great design for placement in large rooms where you look predominantly at the front.
I think some of the best looking speakers are the Living Voice Vox series and some of the Oswalds Mill Audio designs. But, people think I’m weird.
I have a dedicated room and I tend to listen in the dark so the appearance of the speaker is always at bottom of my list of things I evaluate when choosing speakers.
I’m also starting to think I may be an open baffle fan so… that’s changing my view of a “pretty” speaker.
I don’t think you are weird, I certainly appreciate the materials and craftsmanship of OMA. Also I like horn speakers.
It’s just that we do not have the real estate to accommodate that kind of equipment.
The OMA wouldn’t have looked bad in the living room we used to have in Texas, which was approximately 4 x the size of our living room in the Netherlands.
